Yes, but on average the fluctuations even out. This is the best I feel matchmaking can do. Because of that MMR is not a terribly accurate metric, but serves its purpose as a rough approximation of one's skill level. If you are able to consistently play above the level your rating indicates, then you will generally win more than you lose and your rating will go up. How fast or slow will depend on the level of impact of the heroes you pick, however the direction will be the same. Even then, picking a snowballer when the team already has 3 cores will not help much, so one has to be prepared to concede in that aspect as well. Luck, plays an important role as well, especially n the short run.
For example, many people love to pick junglers when the cores are taken so that they can still feel like they have a high imapct on the game, but often lose the laning phase if the opponents have two supports. All you have to do is to go a support-oriented build (for example arcane-mek-blink on Doom), which will help your teammates alot early if you rotate well. However most will insist on rushing their midas and shadowblade on almost any jungle hero they pick. Just a small change in mentality can bring an advantage to your team, which will affect your win rate (and hence mmr) in the long run.
I agree that the fluctuations are going to even out with time (probably a lot ), but its feels so fucking unfair when we are talking about the short run.
It is not possible to account for player skill on different heroes or game to game being up or down in a matching scheme. But that's not the problem I want to address. The problem is players of widely different MMR do not even attempt to play the game the same way, have very different expectations, lower MMR ppl are incapable of playing the way higher MMR ppl do... most often don't even really know what to try.
Such wide gaps in MMR should not be placed on the same team. When a good match simply does not exist Valve should just admit, no match can be found. You should be given a choice to set and expand MMR and language requirements if matches are not found. If no match can be found with English only will I accept one with Russians? I should get to say yes or no, not just go into the game and suddenly its all ppl using Russian. If no match can be found at +/- 250 MMR from mine... I should be given a choice to expand it to +/- 500 MMR or not. I should not just be dumped into a game that has a 4 stack of players 1000 MMR below me and then make up the total 4000 MMR gap in the team on two players who are 2000 MMR below me. That's just lazy programing. But its an "edge case". 50% of the time this kind of thing will give me an easy win. 50% it will give me a certain loss.
And that's not Ok. Its bad for everyone.
There should at the very minimum be transparency so you know you are accepting a game with an MMR range of XXXX. If you did then you would know that you had a chance to play with and against players that at least had a similar score. Valve has been hiding this information behind the guise of protecting nubs forever. But even in Ranked Matching... where supposedly ppl are there to play to win and compare scores... STILL they hide the MMRs. Its because they do not want it to be possible to prove in hard data that what they are doing is crap. Because if they did allow it, then they would be called to account to deal with it. And their stupid programmers have had 2 years and can't figure it out, don't want to figure it out.
Any competitive business does not say "Oh ok I guess some of our products are crap, but its no big deal. On average they are ok. So the few that are crap we won't bother trying to fix. In fact we will even hide the information so customers can't prove that they got crap. We would not want that to get out to the public..." The only businesses who do that are Monopolies. And that is exactly what we have here. Valve has a monopoly on dota 2 matching. The side systems that have been set up to compete (like DBR) if they worked well enough that lots of people began to use them Valve immediately moved to crush them. These are the actions of a business in a monopolistic model. You put no resources into product improvement, instead you ensure customers have no choice but to take crap.
This is not 1 in a million defective matches. It's more like 1 in 10. Every engineering job I had if we were not pushing to eliminate errors down to 1 in a million in a process the boss would be calling us in wondering what the hell we doing with our time. Maybe we did not ge to 1 in a million, but we better at least have a plan and show were moving in that direction. Or at least prove a business case that going from 1 error in 100,000 to 1 error in 1 million was not cost effective. 1 error in 10 was outrageous. Someone would be found to be personally responsible and fired for that if it was not the first time.
In the real world 90% is not an [A] grade. 90% is an [F] for FAILURE. If you come to work 90% of the days you will be fired. In school you get treated to this illusion that getting 70% done right is ok and 90% deserves compliments, but that's bullshit. Getting 100% is doing the expected amount. If you want compliments and promotions you do 100% right and then more that was not even mentioned.
Getting on a winstreak, then you get (http://dotabuff.com/matches/466535017) SF going 0-6-0 in 20min, Carry Enchantress + an Earth sPirit who doesnt know how to use his spells. And a sad guy who want to win badly roaming around the map... <---
As an extremely pragmatic person I tend to overvalue simplicity and efficiency. But the fact is repetition is also pragmatic and didactic because that is how the human brain functions. Repetition is required. Reiteration is even enjoyed. It is appreciated as art. Examine any popular music and see for yourself if it is not immediately obvious. Repetition is revered.
Valve can not control how people play in each game. You say the system is bugged and people are not getting the right MM yet in the same paragraph you complain about not playing against people who are in the same MM bracket as you. Basically unless relentless is not in the same MM bracket as the pros something is wrong. I have heard from the people who have played with relentless how slow his reactions are and horrible in-game decision making choices are, so the fact that he is low MM does not shock me in the least. Having good stats at the end of a match does not mean you are the best player on the team and too many of the low end players do not seem to understand this simple fact
Sure, Xan. And its true. You can climb out of the lower MMR if you are good enough. That's not the problem. The problem is Valve provides a significant number of bad matches when its not difficult to give people the choice to decide the MMR range they want for themselves.
I guess you don't listen to music... or maybe you don't notice that its repetitive and everyone loves it? People never watch videos, read books, listen to the same audio multiple times? Of course really you do know that people need repetition to understand things and enjoy it. You just prefer not to admit it. Maybe you like to believe you are superhuman and don't require repetition or maybe you just don't want to admit your were mistaken in your earlier statements. Or maybe you don't want to admit that you had never thought about it that way before and wished your dismissive comments were not debunked. Whatever the case, the fact is people do read things, including my posts multiple times. You probably even do it yourself.
People enjoy reading the tangents and repetitions. If you don't, then don't read them.
i just see wall of text after wall of text
the system as it is IS fine, the only change i could think about is telling about the gain/loss value of a game (normally ~25-30 for solo and ~0-50 from team mmr) as well a public mmr for ranked games
Relentless, what you say is sometimes okey, but you also stack with Bogi, your gap is above 1500 at some points, so with that, you force other players to play with the same gap. I think you also play with other higher-rated players, but he is on my list as are you, so I can see your scores. Just by that 2stack or even 5stack, you ruin others games, you dont even need the mm for that. But most ppl do it, so its fine as it is.
That's why, especially as a solo queuer, you should be allowed to choose if you want to play with stacks like that have 1500 mmr gaps. Surely you can agree that having a choice is better than not having one. Obviously, this would be less practical for stacks, which often will have large MMR gaps.
Its hard to find 2 stacks that has the same avg mmr, probably harder, then completing an almost full stack with a solo who has sligthly higher rating, so if most solos would choose to not play with stacks, solos queue would be a bit slower, but stacks, a lot lot slower. If valve prefers stacks over solos, they wont change, if they decide to prefer solos, they will.
I'm just coming from a matchmaking game I lost, 1-9-1 visage I was unable to do anything, no support from the team into having me as support, I had to spend all my money into buying stuffs like wards (for example) and was dying to much cause I was main target for no apparent reason... I'm losing game after game after game after game, it seems that the game considers I am so bad that I need to actually get queued with people that don't understand what IO does, or Bloodseeker, or more then 3 heroes....
I am sorry I know I am better then this, I play with a lot of people that are quite high and we win at a pretty decent rate; They do not play with me cause they are my friends, they play with me cause they enjoy how I play...
I am 2.8 rating and I just dropped from this game under 2.8k the people that I play with are 4.2k and we're winning most of the time with me going on a positive score, putting wards if needed, or carrying if needed, or w/e... I cannot win in solo... Impossible...
I will say bye bye to dota2 if I can't play solo, and I will go back to starcraft, there elo rating is great...
my team picked drow ranger as last pick, proper farm, just feed, by the time I was able to push towers with my farm they already were overly feed, I had to pick up from there...
had to pick support, i love vissage, I'm great at micro management. had to lane bottom with Void against a Luna and Lion, Lion was just mana burning him. by the time we got a gank bottom ( which they imidiatly spotted) we were already dying easy to them...
in the same game I found myself I was solo supporting, dissruptor only bought courier and nothing else the whole game... all my items that could've been gone towards something else ( like meka pfff... ) had to be gone to warding and randomly dying cause i was getting right click in the middle of teamfights...
I will keep on dropping if I play, it's impossible for me to win, all the games that I won was because I was overly farmed or overly feeded and I could easy cary the game solo...
If this is solo mmr then no thanks, with people that have wierd picks and so on, this is next to bullshit in my opinion but w/e those people that are 4k+ are probably getting queued with people that understand at least what to pick, understand that it's about the team not the I...
ps: I dropped from 3.2k initial mmr I believe, before I was winning some losing some, it had the feeling of equilibrium but it was still bad, at least team mates were a bit more helping...
Now I just need to do it by myself, impossible to even do anything... It's to depressing, I'm no dendi like player or w/e to do it solo... I play a team game cause I feel it's a team game...
dude first realize u suck ok?
if u were any good your win rate would not be 46%
learn to read the game and realize fast what you need to do in order to win, who gives a fuck if u dont feed and get good stats? its all about winning u big fucking piece of crap, if your team needs you to tank them to get a kill and not feed in the process you do that shit instead of failing at whatever u were doing somewhere else
my team? Firs there are those people that say you have to win by yourself, and then there are those people that say you need to play as a team... do you understand that you are probably full retarded and you didn't even read my post? You just clicked on my profile to check my rating...
This is my account from which I learned dota do you think you win the first games when all you play is riki to learn the game? I am not also going to explain my transition to you...
So ok, my winrate is lower then yours, I play with people that are 50% or even higher and are worser then me, people that can't even last hit or have to rely on guides for the heroes they are playing...
Now If you can't come to anything constructive on why this MM is broken or good, I suggest for you to stfu and go eat some rice cause rice contains vitamins, and vitamins are good for the brain...
2.8k is a far above average score. Better then something like 77% of dota players. Yes, lots of players who like to post on dotabuff are much better... But its still a very good score for pub dota.
Only the very best players can win a lot more than 50% of their games solo. Nearly all 7 million + dota players will get close to 50% win solo. That is the goal of Valves system.
People on dotabuff often like to refer to the Dunning Kruger effect, but they don't understand what it means. The psychological principle is that people in an outlier position inaccurately judge their position. The fact is these 4k to 5k players are the ones in the outlier position whose judgment is compromised. They really do not believe that they are extremely good. They consider themselves moderately good when in fact they are so far above normal they can't comprehend what normal is. Some of them do not even believe that the millions of dota player who can only dream of reaching 3.5k MMR exist.
@ Valedithia. Yes, I have plenty of games qued with people who are 2k and a few nearly 3k MMR above me. Because of Valves system that is likely to put a random player near my MMR on the opposing team. It's not fair to such a player to suddenly find themselves in a game full of advanced tactics they can't handle. Some random 5k player might get stuck with a 3k player on their team who only knows how to carry, but does not expect his shadow blade build to be worthless since my team will always have true sight... or a guy who plays support and constantly gets picked off because he is not used to the speed and range of initiation that high MMR players use.
Here I saw a statement about that Valve cant control all players' solo skills, mmr blabla.
I wanna say what. Actually this mm DOES control over this - in a bad way. Because from the very first moment I joined d2 I like 90% of my time had some amount of FREE wins and then the SAME amount of FREE losses. I already understood that here idiots dont see a difference between 10 games of 50% win chance and between 10 games where 5 games you will win for sure, and then you will lose 5 - for sure too.
When time passed, I got my mmr up and also kda - have it like x2 times more than an average player. So, as this mm by the words of Valve takes all the info about player while looking for team - it started giving me only trashes, thinking I can carry like any game.
But as Relentless said, a good game is not where you pick 1 hero that you play the best and snowball enemies (in this case I could always play ns mid, ursa woods, etc), its when you can play any hero you actually play good and get same satisfaction from the game. Here it is not possible - why? Cuz idiots should be carried to wins - otherwise who gonna buy hats?
Their is no such thing as a guaranteed loss or win. Played a game as Lich recently where the enemy had over 25,000 xp advantage. Yes, 25,000. They still lost because we managed to pick one off, then two and then just charge down mid picking others and buybacks as they came, was hilarious. That was even with a retard KOTL on my team that decided he was a carry and had Desolator and Daedalus and even built himself a butterfly by the end ffs! Stay calm and carry on etc.
If I see someone with <50% win the first thing I think about them has nothing to do with skill but I bet lots and lots of monies the reason for their <50% is because they give up far too easily.
I've won and lost from ridiculous positions where it seemed impossible to come back or throw, but we did, mainly because I don't rage at PC games, (lol, it 'aint that important guys and gals!), and keep on trying until the end. Most of the time this doesn't work and just makes my KDA's a helluva lot worse, (Guess what though....that's right, I don't care about that very much either), but for me I'd rather win than keep an extra tenth of a percentile point on some number no-one's ever going to actually care about.
^^ I told u guys before that quality of games went down when they hid rating If u thought they decided to hid it just for lolz then i dont know what to tell u
vivivvivivi, newbs I caused butthurt coudlnt stand me being here.
Sampson, you can actually just follow any links of my games. I told my mmr in the thread nearby, go google it.
I dont really understand where u're going with ur thoughts. Like mm is perfect, I'm a newb, etc? Kiddo I was playing doto when u didnt even know how to turn pc on.
And really, start giving me arguments. Kiddish mimimi of people here cant really correspond with anything. I'm telling facts, thoughts, how they are connected. All I hear is ITS OK I WIN HUEHUE, not 50% winrate cuz I think so, etc. Please stop this.
Gave you plenty of arguments but you chose to ignore them.
There is no such thing as a free win or free loss. It only seems that way because the game snowballed out of control very early. This will happen occasionally no matter how balanced the teams are.
so yea I know some of the people you have played with and the general consensus in that you are so delusional in terms of your own skill lv. I can now see why you think MM is not working you honestly believe that when you played in the ursa wisp tree stacks that you where outplaying everyone with pure skill and talent. Your whole stack says you are fucking awful and should be kissing their feet for even allowing you some free stats
Zenoth, I'm able to count a player's skill in like 20-30 min of the game if he is in my team. When I see I'm placed in the team with russian tiny and 0-10 mid od against tryhards that gank since lvl 1 with smokes and ti3 builds carries, I clearly see that this is a free loss.
Sampson, I also know that some of my friends that play not worse than you - better, actually, I guess, agree that my games are bad-balanced with me as a guy to carry them. I dunno who told you something about me - but they should have butthurt from what I'd told them before.
If you're talking about urso stack - the very thing that these people who decided to exploit the system to get some wins talking bad about me shows how retarded they are, not actually me. And yes, most of them were bad.
And would be nice if you have any logs - otherwise it shows that you're just a clueless kiddo. :p
No you abused the system got high kda (sad how low your winrate is abusing ursa wisp) and you got a much higher MM than what you should have. This led to you losing tons of matches when the solo MM came out. If MM thought I was a 8k MM player it would have to give me weaker teammates to balance out the games I am in and if in actually I am just a 2k trash noob that just abused ursa wisp my matches are going to suck.
So just continue to keep losing to you are back to the 2k MM bracket where you belong
Sampson, gotta give u a lil but of surprise - I had the same kda even before abusing. Secondly, considering the amount of my games, I abused like 1-2% of them. Thirdly, I just cannot belong lower than 4k mmr, as even before this shit I had about diamond dotabuff raiting, but u may think this way cuz being delusional is all u have.
And in general - u're just retarded, so gtfo. Gaben already prepared free wins for u, and u will be happy kiddo. =)
PS Wtf, still cant see any logs. Are u a complete idiot or what?
^ But why to bother, ur kda is too low to be really interested in my games. Different level, you know. You just cannot judge me.
PS Please lads, everyone who has butthurt here may leave. This thread is not for delusional folks, here I wanna show how bad mm is, not how bad u are. Well, ofc some of u are bad, but thats not what I'm talking about, so please, u may go out and have fun.
shit tier player seem to think kda really matters, I could buff my KDA if I fought shit tier players in LPQ doing ursa wisp. Every player in your stack says you are awful best just crawl up in a hole and stop playing dota
lol, judging me by my kda? pity your high kda is not from high teamfight participation but low deathrate, which is easily achievable at the cost of the game.
oh well. guess playing on page 1-10 against pros regularly puts me on a different level from you. don't worry, I already know that.
I am sure this kid plays with pros too, sadly he got there on the back of 4 other people while abusing the system. Now he is off ruining games for other players because he was overvalued and loses matches for his team
http://dotabuff.com/matches/467627574 Can anyone why this riki is in a 4k+ game, even though it is clear that he can't play on this skill level successfully? I know about valve's anti smurf system and all that, but this is insane. He was solo queuing too
^
I look at your lineup and I see a really terrible team to play against for riki. The only one he can solo kill reliably is silencer. From the game stat-wise he seemed to do okay. What makes you think that he can't play on your skill level successfully?
" From the game stat-wise he seemed to do okay" He died 10 times as their 1st position farmer, and kept being caught out of position. AHe also was flamed by his team mates, indicating that he couldn't hold up the same pace or coordination in team fights, or that he didn't join the team fights when he was needed. In spite of that, he did farm up from a bad start, but it costed his team a lot and he did too many bad decisions that costed them the game
10 deaths was the second lowest on his team. Without looking at the game I can only infer so much - he had the highest GPM, although he had very bad hero damage for Riki, which shows he was farming his ass off rather than fighting. Viper getting shadowblade with Riki on the same team was a terrible choice as well. It could be that he simply refused to cooperate because his team flamed him after a bad start.
That riki is clearly a thrower. He chooses to win some games... in your games he decided to lose. Maybe you pissed him off, or maybe its just bad luck. But he lost on purpose by farming instead of fighting. He does this in a lot of games.
Also solo que and party que are the same. If there is even one party in the game it can impose whatever range of MMR it has on the game.
Relentless I feel like your game was lost in the picking phase. You have 4 melee vs silencer and cm, no counter to pudge mid, no counter to skele king. You sorta countered brood with some aoe and spirit breaker crushes silencer usually but ursa and dk picks seem pretty dumb.
Yes, but on average the fluctuations even out. This is the best I feel matchmaking can do. Because of that MMR is not a terribly accurate metric, but serves its purpose as a rough approximation of one's skill level. If you are able to consistently play above the level your rating indicates, then you will generally win more than you lose and your rating will go up. How fast or slow will depend on the level of impact of the heroes you pick, however the direction will be the same. Even then, picking a snowballer when the team already has 3 cores will not help much, so one has to be prepared to concede in that aspect as well. Luck, plays an important role as well, especially n the short run.
For example, many people love to pick junglers when the cores are taken so that they can still feel like they have a high imapct on the game, but often lose the laning phase if the opponents have two supports. All you have to do is to go a support-oriented build (for example arcane-mek-blink on Doom), which will help your teammates alot early if you rotate well. However most will insist on rushing their midas and shadowblade on almost any jungle hero they pick. Just a small change in mentality can bring an advantage to your team, which will affect your win rate (and hence mmr) in the long run.
I agree that the fluctuations are going to even out with time (probably a lot ), but its feels so fucking unfair when we are talking about the short run.
It is not possible to account for player skill on different heroes or game to game being up or down in a matching scheme. But that's not the problem I want to address. The problem is players of widely different MMR do not even attempt to play the game the same way, have very different expectations, lower MMR ppl are incapable of playing the way higher MMR ppl do... most often don't even really know what to try.
Such wide gaps in MMR should not be placed on the same team. When a good match simply does not exist Valve should just admit, no match can be found. You should be given a choice to set and expand MMR and language requirements if matches are not found. If no match can be found with English only will I accept one with Russians? I should get to say yes or no, not just go into the game and suddenly its all ppl using Russian. If no match can be found at +/- 250 MMR from mine... I should be given a choice to expand it to +/- 500 MMR or not. I should not just be dumped into a game that has a 4 stack of players 1000 MMR below me and then make up the total 4000 MMR gap in the team on two players who are 2000 MMR below me. That's just lazy programing. But its an "edge case". 50% of the time this kind of thing will give me an easy win. 50% it will give me a certain loss.
And that's not Ok. Its bad for everyone.
There should at the very minimum be transparency so you know you are accepting a game with an MMR range of XXXX. If you did then you would know that you had a chance to play with and against players that at least had a similar score. Valve has been hiding this information behind the guise of protecting nubs forever. But even in Ranked Matching... where supposedly ppl are there to play to win and compare scores... STILL they hide the MMRs. Its because they do not want it to be possible to prove in hard data that what they are doing is crap. Because if they did allow it, then they would be called to account to deal with it. And their stupid programmers have had 2 years and can't figure it out, don't want to figure it out.
Any competitive business does not say "Oh ok I guess some of our products are crap, but its no big deal. On average they are ok. So the few that are crap we won't bother trying to fix. In fact we will even hide the information so customers can't prove that they got crap. We would not want that to get out to the public..." The only businesses who do that are Monopolies. And that is exactly what we have here. Valve has a monopoly on dota 2 matching. The side systems that have been set up to compete (like DBR) if they worked well enough that lots of people began to use them Valve immediately moved to crush them. These are the actions of a business in a monopolistic model. You put no resources into product improvement, instead you ensure customers have no choice but to take crap.
This is not 1 in a million defective matches. It's more like 1 in 10. Every engineering job I had if we were not pushing to eliminate errors down to 1 in a million in a process the boss would be calling us in wondering what the hell we doing with our time. Maybe we did not ge to 1 in a million, but we better at least have a plan and show were moving in that direction. Or at least prove a business case that going from 1 error in 100,000 to 1 error in 1 million was not cost effective. 1 error in 10 was outrageous. Someone would be found to be personally responsible and fired for that if it was not the first time.
In the real world 90% is not an [A] grade. 90% is an [F] for FAILURE. If you come to work 90% of the days you will be fired. In school you get treated to this illusion that getting 70% done right is ok and 90% deserves compliments, but that's bullshit. Getting 100% is doing the expected amount. If you want compliments and promotions you do 100% right and then more that was not even mentioned.
Getting on a winstreak, then you get (http://dotabuff.com/matches/466535017) SF going 0-6-0 in 20min, Carry Enchantress + an Earth sPirit who doesnt know how to use his spells. And a sad guy who want to win badly roaming around the map... <---
it really wouldn't kill you to be concise.
I am concise.
As an extremely pragmatic person I tend to overvalue simplicity and efficiency. But the fact is repetition is also pragmatic and didactic because that is how the human brain functions. Repetition is required. Reiteration is even enjoyed. It is appreciated as art. Examine any popular music and see for yourself if it is not immediately obvious. Repetition is revered.
Valve can not control how people play in each game. You say the system is bugged and people are not getting the right MM yet in the same paragraph you complain about not playing against people who are in the same MM bracket as you. Basically unless relentless is not in the same MM bracket as the pros something is wrong. I have heard from the people who have played with relentless how slow his reactions are and horrible in-game decision making choices are, so the fact that he is low MM does not shock me in the least. Having good stats at the end of a match does not mean you are the best player on the team and too many of the low end players do not seem to understand this simple fact
see what I mean. again going off tangent.
art, human brain function, music??? the fuck dude, no one cares. its dota forum.
repetition is revered my ass. no one likes to read same posts over and over again.
you don't like how mmr system works. ok. fine. we got it.
I also remember you playing devils advocate for that very same system saying if you are good enough you will get out of your potato bracket.
I'll say one thing tho, it's much easier winning 50% at 5k than having to win 60% continuously to get there.
Sure, Xan. And its true. You can climb out of the lower MMR if you are good enough. That's not the problem. The problem is Valve provides a significant number of bad matches when its not difficult to give people the choice to decide the MMR range they want for themselves.
I guess you don't listen to music... or maybe you don't notice that its repetitive and everyone loves it? People never watch videos, read books, listen to the same audio multiple times? Of course really you do know that people need repetition to understand things and enjoy it. You just prefer not to admit it. Maybe you like to believe you are superhuman and don't require repetition or maybe you just don't want to admit your were mistaken in your earlier statements. Or maybe you don't want to admit that you had never thought about it that way before and wished your dismissive comments were not debunked. Whatever the case, the fact is people do read things, including my posts multiple times. You probably even do it yourself.
People enjoy reading the tangents and repetitions. If you don't, then don't read them.
i just see wall of text after wall of text
the system as it is IS fine, the only change i could think about is telling about the gain/loss value of a game (normally ~25-30 for solo and ~0-50 from team mmr) as well a public mmr for ranked games
as it was back in dotalicious
Relentless, what you say is sometimes okey, but you also stack with Bogi, your gap is above 1500 at some points, so with that, you force other players to play with the same gap. I think you also play with other higher-rated players, but he is on my list as are you, so I can see your scores. Just by that 2stack or even 5stack, you ruin others games, you dont even need the mm for that. But most ppl do it, so its fine as it is.
That's why, especially as a solo queuer, you should be allowed to choose if you want to play with stacks like that have 1500 mmr gaps. Surely you can agree that having a choice is better than not having one. Obviously, this would be less practical for stacks, which often will have large MMR gaps.
Its hard to find 2 stacks that has the same avg mmr, probably harder, then completing an almost full stack with a solo who has sligthly higher rating, so if most solos would choose to not play with stacks, solos queue would be a bit slower, but stacks, a lot lot slower. If valve prefers stacks over solos, they wont change, if they decide to prefer solos, they will.
Hmm, you're right. I didn't think about that.
I'm just coming from a matchmaking game I lost, 1-9-1 visage I was unable to do anything, no support from the team into having me as support, I had to spend all my money into buying stuffs like wards (for example) and was dying to much cause I was main target for no apparent reason... I'm losing game after game after game after game, it seems that the game considers I am so bad that I need to actually get queued with people that don't understand what IO does, or Bloodseeker, or more then 3 heroes....
I am sorry I know I am better then this, I play with a lot of people that are quite high and we win at a pretty decent rate; They do not play with me cause they are my friends, they play with me cause they enjoy how I play...
I am 2.8 rating and I just dropped from this game under 2.8k the people that I play with are 4.2k and we're winning most of the time with me going on a positive score, putting wards if needed, or carrying if needed, or w/e... I cannot win in solo... Impossible...
I will say bye bye to dota2 if I can't play solo, and I will go back to starcraft, there elo rating is great...
I'll link 2 games :
http://dotabuff.com/matches/466597362
my team picked drow ranger as last pick, proper farm, just feed, by the time I was able to push towers with my farm they already were overly feed, I had to pick up from there...
http://dotabuff.com/matches/466634123
had to pick support, i love vissage, I'm great at micro management. had to lane bottom with Void against a Luna and Lion, Lion was just mana burning him. by the time we got a gank bottom ( which they imidiatly spotted) we were already dying easy to them...
in the same game I found myself I was solo supporting, dissruptor only bought courier and nothing else the whole game... all my items that could've been gone towards something else ( like meka pfff... ) had to be gone to warding and randomly dying cause i was getting right click in the middle of teamfights...
I will keep on dropping if I play, it's impossible for me to win, all the games that I won was because I was overly farmed or overly feeded and I could easy cary the game solo...
If this is solo mmr then no thanks, with people that have wierd picks and so on, this is next to bullshit in my opinion but w/e those people that are 4k+ are probably getting queued with people that understand at least what to pick, understand that it's about the team not the I...
ps: I dropped from 3.2k initial mmr I believe, before I was winning some losing some, it had the feeling of equilibrium but it was still bad, at least team mates were a bit more helping...
Now I just need to do it by myself, impossible to even do anything... It's to depressing, I'm no dendi like player or w/e to do it solo... I play a team game cause I feel it's a team game...
dude first realize u suck ok?
if u were any good your win rate would not be 46%
learn to read the game and realize fast what you need to do in order to win, who gives a fuck if u dont feed and get good stats? its all about winning u big fucking piece of crap, if your team needs you to tank them to get a kill and not feed in the process you do that shit instead of failing at whatever u were doing somewhere else
my team? Firs there are those people that say you have to win by yourself, and then there are those people that say you need to play as a team... do you understand that you are probably full retarded and you didn't even read my post? You just clicked on my profile to check my rating...
This is my account from which I learned dota do you think you win the first games when all you play is riki to learn the game? I am not also going to explain my transition to you...
So ok, my winrate is lower then yours, I play with people that are 50% or even higher and are worser then me, people that can't even last hit or have to rely on guides for the heroes they are playing...
Now If you can't come to anything constructive on why this MM is broken or good, I suggest for you to stfu and go eat some rice cause rice contains vitamins, and vitamins are good for the brain...
2.8k is a far above average score. Better then something like 77% of dota players. Yes, lots of players who like to post on dotabuff are much better... But its still a very good score for pub dota.
Only the very best players can win a lot more than 50% of their games solo. Nearly all 7 million + dota players will get close to 50% win solo. That is the goal of Valves system.
People on dotabuff often like to refer to the Dunning Kruger effect, but they don't understand what it means. The psychological principle is that people in an outlier position inaccurately judge their position. The fact is these 4k to 5k players are the ones in the outlier position whose judgment is compromised. They really do not believe that they are extremely good. They consider themselves moderately good when in fact they are so far above normal they can't comprehend what normal is. Some of them do not even believe that the millions of dota player who can only dream of reaching 3.5k MMR exist.
@ Valedithia. Yes, I have plenty of games qued with people who are 2k and a few nearly 3k MMR above me. Because of Valves system that is likely to put a random player near my MMR on the opposing team. It's not fair to such a player to suddenly find themselves in a game full of advanced tactics they can't handle. Some random 5k player might get stuck with a 3k player on their team who only knows how to carry, but does not expect his shadow blade build to be worthless since my team will always have true sight... or a guy who plays support and constantly gets picked off because he is not used to the speed and range of initiation that high MMR players use.
lol ur name so funny "lie to me agen fagt" haha
Here I saw a statement about that Valve cant control all players' solo skills, mmr blabla.
I wanna say what. Actually this mm DOES control over this - in a bad way. Because from the very first moment I joined d2 I like 90% of my time had some amount of FREE wins and then the SAME amount of FREE losses. I already understood that here idiots dont see a difference between 10 games of 50% win chance and between 10 games where 5 games you will win for sure, and then you will lose 5 - for sure too.
When time passed, I got my mmr up and also kda - have it like x2 times more than an average player. So, as this mm by the words of Valve takes all the info about player while looking for team - it started giving me only trashes, thinking I can carry like any game.
But as Relentless said, a good game is not where you pick 1 hero that you play the best and snowball enemies (in this case I could always play ns mid, ursa woods, etc), its when you can play any hero you actually play good and get same satisfaction from the game. Here it is not possible - why? Cuz idiots should be carried to wins - otherwise who gonna buy hats?
did your main acc get banned from posting here too bro
im at 4k atm. just got in a match where a guy has 5.1 k and the other 4.9 k. (added them to see if they were lying). balanced matchmaking.
Their is no such thing as a guaranteed loss or win. Played a game as Lich recently where the enemy had over 25,000 xp advantage. Yes, 25,000. They still lost because we managed to pick one off, then two and then just charge down mid picking others and buybacks as they came, was hilarious. That was even with a retard KOTL on my team that decided he was a carry and had Desolator and Daedalus and even built himself a butterfly by the end ffs! Stay calm and carry on etc.
If I see someone with <50% win the first thing I think about them has nothing to do with skill but I bet lots and lots of monies the reason for their <50% is because they give up far too easily.
I've won and lost from ridiculous positions where it seemed impossible to come back or throw, but we did, mainly because I don't rage at PC games, (lol, it 'aint that important guys and gals!), and keep on trying until the end. Most of the time this doesn't work and just makes my KDA's a helluva lot worse, (Guess what though....that's right, I don't care about that very much either), but for me I'd rather win than keep an extra tenth of a percentile point on some number no-one's ever going to actually care about.
^^ I told u guys before that quality of games went down when they hid rating If u thought they decided to hid it just for lolz then i dont know what to tell u
@ lie to me
link your main account and your MM
vivivvivivi, newbs I caused butthurt coudlnt stand me being here.
Sampson, you can actually just follow any links of my games. I told my mmr in the thread nearby, go google it.
I dont really understand where u're going with ur thoughts. Like mm is perfect, I'm a newb, etc? Kiddo I was playing doto when u didnt even know how to turn pc on.
And really, start giving me arguments. Kiddish mimimi of people here cant really correspond with anything. I'm telling facts, thoughts, how they are connected. All I hear is ITS OK I WIN HUEHUE, not 50% winrate cuz I think so, etc. Please stop this.
lel
Gave you plenty of arguments but you chose to ignore them.
There is no such thing as a free win or free loss. It only seems that way because the game snowballed out of control very early. This will happen occasionally no matter how balanced the teams are.
so yea I know some of the people you have played with and the general consensus in that you are so delusional in terms of your own skill lv. I can now see why you think MM is not working you honestly believe that when you played in the ursa wisp tree stacks that you where outplaying everyone with pure skill and talent. Your whole stack says you are fucking awful and should be kissing their feet for even allowing you some free stats
Zenoth, I'm able to count a player's skill in like 20-30 min of the game if he is in my team. When I see I'm placed in the team with russian tiny and 0-10 mid od against tryhards that gank since lvl 1 with smokes and ti3 builds carries, I clearly see that this is a free loss.
Sampson, I also know that some of my friends that play not worse than you - better, actually, I guess, agree that my games are bad-balanced with me as a guy to carry them. I dunno who told you something about me - but they should have butthurt from what I'd told them before.
If you're talking about urso stack - the very thing that these people who decided to exploit the system to get some wins talking bad about me shows how retarded they are, not actually me. And yes, most of them were bad.
And would be nice if you have any logs - otherwise it shows that you're just a clueless kiddo. :p
No you abused the system got high kda (sad how low your winrate is abusing ursa wisp) and you got a much higher MM than what you should have. This led to you losing tons of matches when the solo MM came out. If MM thought I was a 8k MM player it would have to give me weaker teammates to balance out the games I am in and if in actually I am just a 2k trash noob that just abused ursa wisp my matches are going to suck.
So just continue to keep losing to you are back to the 2k MM bracket where you belong
Sampson, gotta give u a lil but of surprise - I had the same kda even before abusing. Secondly, considering the amount of my games, I abused like 1-2% of them. Thirdly, I just cannot belong lower than 4k mmr, as even before this shit I had about diamond dotabuff raiting, but u may think this way cuz being delusional is all u have.
And in general - u're just retarded, so gtfo. Gaben already prepared free wins for u, and u will be happy kiddo. =)
PS Wtf, still cant see any logs. Are u a complete idiot or what?
you had the same kda on ursa??????really? lulz
Sampson, so idiot, u gonna answer me or what?
Pfff k. You lost in the argue, ggwp.
hey fagt. i'm bored. why not post a game where you think you played decently but had braindead teammates and i'll take a look at it for you.
^ But why to bother, ur kda is too low to be really interested in my games. Different level, you know. You just cannot judge me.
PS Please lads, everyone who has butthurt here may leave. This thread is not for delusional folks, here I wanna show how bad mm is, not how bad u are. Well, ofc some of u are bad, but thats not what I'm talking about, so please, u may go out and have fun.
shit tier player seem to think kda really matters, I could buff my KDA if I fought shit tier players in LPQ doing ursa wisp. Every player in your stack says you are awful best just crawl up in a hole and stop playing dota
you where the guy they put in to make a 5stack, I have been told even relentless played better than you
lol, judging me by my kda? pity your high kda is not from high teamfight participation but low deathrate, which is easily achievable at the cost of the game.
oh well. guess playing on page 1-10 against pros regularly puts me on a different level from you. don't worry, I already know that.
I am sure this kid plays with pros too, sadly he got there on the back of 4 other people while abusing the system. Now he is off ruining games for other players because he was overvalued and loses matches for his team
http://dotabuff.com/matches/467627574
Can anyone why this riki is in a 4k+ game, even though it is clear that he can't play on this skill level successfully? I know about valve's anti smurf system and all that, but this is insane. He was solo queuing too
^
I look at your lineup and I see a really terrible team to play against for riki. The only one he can solo kill reliably is silencer. From the game stat-wise he seemed to do okay. What makes you think that he can't play on your skill level successfully?
" From the game stat-wise he seemed to do okay" He died 10 times as their 1st position farmer, and kept being caught out of position. AHe also was flamed by his team mates, indicating that he couldn't hold up the same pace or coordination in team fights, or that he didn't join the team fights when he was needed. In spite of that, he did farm up from a bad start, but it costed his team a lot and he did too many bad decisions that costed them the game
10 deaths was the second lowest on his team. Without looking at the game I can only infer so much - he had the highest GPM, although he had very bad hero damage for Riki, which shows he was farming his ass off rather than fighting. Viper getting shadowblade with Riki on the same team was a terrible choice as well. It could be that he simply refused to cooperate because his team flamed him after a bad start.
That riki is clearly a thrower. He chooses to win some games... in your games he decided to lose. Maybe you pissed him off, or maybe its just bad luck. But he lost on purpose by farming instead of fighting. He does this in a lot of games.
Also solo que and party que are the same. If there is even one party in the game it can impose whatever range of MMR it has on the game.
Please stop butthurting kiddos, I politely asked u.
PS Gtfo.
Relentless I feel like your game was lost in the picking phase. You have 4 melee vs silencer and cm, no counter to pudge mid, no counter to skele king. You sorta countered brood with some aoe and spirit breaker crushes silencer usually but ursa and dk picks seem pretty dumb.