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122 Kommentare
Keep Awake

    For all the complaints, those are FINE. Just please keep in mind, how will you fit that aghs into your build?

    Will you get the farm for it in time for the upgrade to be worth it?

    p2d

      Aghs LC needs to block disables being used in the Duel otherwise it's a waste of gold

      !
      !

        Batrider tier 2 while Abaddon and FV tier 3 and Tide tier 5? I'm done.

        feed

          Because it's written by an average player. Hopefully average.

          Immaculatebacon

            yo yo yo you just triggered all of dotabuff. honestly there was like 6 that i strongly disagree wih otherwise i liked the article. especially since 3 (luna enigma morphling) you talked about how they could be good.

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              TeraByte

                Aghs on enigma is just pointless now

                Ben-Yashar

                  Sven support<Vengeful Spirit

                  Ben-Yashar

                    @DropDead.EXE You're so wrong

                    一ゲ

                      I though Juggernaut must be in Tier 3

                      Celine

                        Lul OD agh is like the worst thing ever
                        I'd rather have an AM rushing blink dagger and buying wards instead of an OD buying aghs

                        BlurryBob

                          Blink dagger on AM can be good

                          zen moment

                            Luna aghs is definitely legit

                            愤怒

                              I agree this is garbage.

                              ETd

                                i think the article has to go in depth on each and every Agh's, to clarify why they are in each tier list. I agree with most of the list though, I would just like to see full justifications for some tier placements, like Mirana or Spirit Breaker.

                                Atafun

                                  Great.

                                  Crustle

                                    Necrophos should definitely be top tier. A game-winning item if used correctly. I also think the Phoenix and Wraith King aghs can be broken in certain situations, despite being trash most of the time!

                                    horus

                                      Phoenix's Aghs could work well with heroes with very long cooldown non-ultimate abilities - aka Terrorblade and metamorphosis (it means when the enemy thinks it is on cooldown suddenly you turn around and destroy them).

                                      ccp

                                        Blog posts like this make me think whether we are playing the same game.

                                        Intris

                                          Oh theres no rubick in here

                                          Intris

                                            @ ArcticWP unfortunately that whole reaper's scyth spell is trash tier in competitive play. Countered by grave, glimmer, disruption, false promise, etc etc

                                            Guilty Spark

                                              Hey KawaiiSocks and Dotabuff... I really like the structure of this article. Putting some questions at the end is a great addition to engage the reader.

                                              A lot of people are knocking your list but... its just a list! and your opinion (with some valid points)! You even ask everyone to give their own opinions which turns this into a discussion rather just a bulletin. I think some people are confused about the purpose of these posts.

                                              Great job and keep 'em coming! It is a great way to start the day.

                                              George Zangief

                                                Earthshaker is tier 4, WUUUUUT? He must be tier 2 at least.

                                                ThunderWarrior

                                                  Druid on tier 5?! Are you serious? This is stupid you know? Letting the bear go and push by itself is very strong and won't put the hero on danger. I would rate him on at least tier 3 if not lower.

                                                  [TGM043]

                                                    "with and Aghs Luna" should be 'with an Aghs Luna'

                                                    Arc

                                                      First of all, LC aghs is actually awfull if the enemy have a lot of disables and your team like to do constant gank (causing their attack or even spell to be wasted)
                                                      Next is Lone Druid. His aghs is very good for split-pushing and farming. Most people tend to target the hero instead of the bear because once the hero is dead, they don't have much problem. But once Druid get his aghs, the bear become a very large threat to anyone who tend to ignore the bear.
                                                      And then Enigma. Enigma aghs is very good causing the black hole to scale well into the late game by adding midnight pulse damage (which is using percentage). Moreover his midnight pulse and black hole cause PURE damage and ignore BKB. The only thing that matter is pre-actived-blade mail
                                                      Moving on to Bara, which is under rated. However the 20 sec cd and Aoe bash can make you a very constant ganker and your participation on teamfight will be larger. And just like batrider, this ability can bypass linken sphere by striking a creep or other hero without Linken. Watchout for the linken's by pass though.
                                                      Next up is weaver. Weaver is an annoying carry/escape alien bug who love killing people from distance and invisiblity and before he die just straight use his ulti to go back in fight. And the aghs upgrade is as useless as carry sven aghs. This is making weaver a very bad decision for making aghs. Just buy a simple ultimate orb and the price is better and upgrade it into linken. Not even a support weaver recommended for that thing.
                                                      On the other hand, LS aghs must be at least tier 5.However this only apply if u have a constant ganker long range ganker (Storm Spirit/Bara) and paired with a powerfull but short range and low mobility initiator (Tidehunter/Axe/Earthshaker). This make an excellent combo with an extra damage from Consume and Eject. (Well its actually situational weak, but not actually useless)
                                                      Most of tier 4 hero is actually consist under rated support that their ultimate can be scaled a little bit by Aghs. But the major of this example is Warlock. His massive teamfight contribution and pushing is the main thing of the warlock's golem in midgame. But once his refresher is buit(especially alcemist free aghanim), you will watch enemy crying to their main carries to farm faster and kill 4 ANNOYING HELL GOLEM. Just by hanging around with them then you will see the enemy type "GGWP, Report our midlane, Core, Support, Jungle, etc"
                                                      Last and actually the least is OD. OD is MASSIVELY NERFED. This cause his Aghs become even useless than weaver's. Not only the intelligence steal is gone, the damage of Astral Imprisonment DO NOT SCALE. You don't even deserve alce's aghanim. The 4 sec time is considered very bad because its too long for the enemy and they will consider where they will run or counter-initiate. And the only good thing about it is cancel tp and disable Blink dagger (But not force staff, blink from qop or am, Leap or any natural escape mechanics)

                                                      Sarllo

                                                        scepter wich only upgrade ultimate magic dmg are garbage (zeuz), the ones wich upgrade any ability in dmg and cooldown are niche, the ones wich upgrade hero qualities, reduces cooldown, increase dmg etc are the best ex: invoker- tinker, and.. tiny who sadly is right now a VERY VERY VEEERY weak hero IMO

                                                        luka doncic

                                                          how the hell is dooms aghs upgrade only tier 3 lmao

                                                          AngheL

                                                            LC and Elder titan has better aghs upgrade than lion's 20 cd 1k dmg aoe nuke and tide's 7 cd slow/armor reduction tsunami.

                                                            Seems legit.

                                                            This post is as much of a joke as ODs scepter 'upgrade'

                                                            GOHF

                                                              Everyone here has a shit opinion and mine is the only one that isn't. Why? Because I'm wearing sunglasses, bitch.

                                                              Makhnovtchina

                                                                Tiny and WR are tier 2 at best, tier 1 should be must-buys, and aghs isn't a 100% buy on these
                                                                Also pugna's is dogshit, his aghs is a reason his WR is not higher, people mindlessly buy it on him but it's absolute garbage

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                                                                xenon

                                                                  ld aghanims really underrated.

                                                                  Renegade

                                                                    To be honest this list doesn't really make masses of sense, but that's because it's a non objective, opinion based list (at least it seems to be). For a lot of people the usefulness of the Aghs upgrade comes down to how well it feels when they run it on one of their heroes. For me I've found the Tide Aghs to be amazing whenever I use it and I wouldn't have it down in the trash tiers. However that's just me and other people's experiences may differ.

                                                                    Alternatively maybe the list suffers in response because it's possibly too objective and looks only at the specific value that each hero acquires from the upgrade rather than how well it factors into individual players/plays.

                                                                    Potato Marshal

                                                                      What the fuck? How is Warlock aghs "situationally mediocre" or "consistently weak"? How the hell do you put Puck's aghs above Warlock's? You'll barely be able to farm an aghs on KoTL most of the time too, definitely should not be a tier 1 aghs. Lich's aghs is also extremely powerful in the right situation, if the enemy has a ton of illusions or summons, it'll be almost impossible to disjoint in a huge teamfight.

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                                                                        Templar Assassin Aghanim Upgrade

                                                                        Maximum Traps: 5/8/11
                                                                        Upgrade: 7/11/15

                                                                        Min Move Speed Slow: 30%
                                                                        Max Move Speed Slow: 60%
                                                                        Upgrade: additional 10%
                                                                        Slow Duration: 5 seconds

                                                                        Vision Range: 400 (day) - 400 (night)

                                                                        Trap Mana Cost: 15
                                                                        Cool down: 11/8/5 seconds
                                                                        Trap Duration: Permanent

                                                                        TA can Blink to nearby trap location within 800 radius
                                                                        Blink Mana Cost: 50
                                                                        Cool down: 11/8/5 seconds

                                                                        Commands on Trap (if you select a trap)
                                                                        Q: Spring trap (slowing enemies)
                                                                        W: Blink to the trap (can access command only if TA is within 800 radius around trap)
                                                                        note: trap will not activate or disappear when TA blink to it

                                                                        Aghanim Bonus:
                                                                        +10 Strength
                                                                        +10 Agility
                                                                        +10 Intelligence
                                                                        +175 Health
                                                                        +175 Mana

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                                                                        OGVelociraptor.TV

                                                                          I wanna see a TA aghs that adds damage to her traps. like 50/100/150 or something like that.

                                                                          hivemind

                                                                            you are so wrong if you think that bats aghs is better than bloodseekers

                                                                            Player 95251565

                                                                              A matrice pointed out, I was also baffled. I think this list is quite a bit off.

                                                                              Fine

                                                                                Just because nobody said it, Ags on SB has a 64% win rate. BKB piercing aoe stun on a 20 sec cd. SBs job is to be tanky and disrupt fights vlads ags GG.

                                                                                I like dotabuff articles that are based on numbers and stats not opinions.

                                                                                matrice

                                                                                  With a lot of inspiration from this blog post, here is my own list. There's ofc some mistake, but much less. Trying to refer to the tier name of the blog post made it easy for a lot of heroes, but for some, its just not fitting; some other heroes are also so much on the line between two tier. Harder than what i thought in first place :

                                                                                  Tier 1—consistently game-changing (get it)
                                                                                  Invoker, kotl, meepo, night stalker, tiny, windranger, techies

                                                                                  Tier 2—consistently strong or situationally game-changing (get it at some point)
                                                                                  mirana, aa, clock, disruptor, ench, lina, necro, nyx, pugna, rubick, sandking, sd, shadow shaman, timber, tinker, venom, witch doctor, doom, earth spirit, ogre, puck, visage, weaver, warlock

                                                                                  Tier 3—consistently mediocre or situationally strong (luxury/if you play the hero differently)
                                                                                  pudge, chen, drow, ursa, abaddon, centaur, ds, dazzle, void, naga, omniknight, oracle, qop, sf, storm, venge, viper, bloodseeker, bristle, huskar, phoenix, enigma, ld, luna, morphling, tusk, wraith king, spirit breaker, tide

                                                                                  Tier 4—consistently weak or situationally mediocre (avoid / ask alchemist)
                                                                                  bat, titan, jakiro, legion, razor, sky, axe, bane, brew, maiden, earth shaker, jug, leshrac, lion, silencer

                                                                                  Tier Alchemist— (ask alchemist when everyone else got his agahs)
                                                                                  alchemist, gyro, lifestealer, sven, zeus

                                                                                  Tier 5— (don’t even ask alchemist for that)
                                                                                  beast, lich, magnus, kunka, winter wyvern

                                                                                  Tier never— (You should hang yourself if you think it’s worth paying even one gold for this -not even mention item slot-)
                                                                                  od

                                                                                  Special tier : either game changing or useless.
                                                                                  furion, treant , undying

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                                                                                  J_A_P_G

                                                                                    >literally the most essential item on techies
                                                                                    >tier 3
                                                                                    Probably the worst article I've ever seen on this site. Shameful.

                                                                                    Mupf

                                                                                      How has nobody pointed out yet how awesome aghs on tide is? Low cooldown, insane range group slow?

                                                                                      Kyansā

                                                                                        PLS GIVE PA AGHS UPGRADE. Will make her evasion ignore mkb's and BM's cant reflect her crits.

                                                                                        matrice

                                                                                          @Mupf, cause this agahs is bad on tide. if you had this effect on poke heroes, then yeah, it would be awesome, but on tide ...
                                                                                          It's basically a give me a poke spell, that you can dodge in fight. While tide is all about a big bursty fight, and then tanking like a boss, reducing damage of the remnant of opponent's team.

                                                                                          However you are true, its more of a tier3 than tier4 as i putted it. So i will correct it

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                                                                                          BISKIT.Cheesehead87

                                                                                            Warlock should be in tier 3.

                                                                                            Murranji

                                                                                              It's kind of hilarious how bad Zeus Aghs is when you consider Mirana's Aghs is in the game.

                                                                                              Mirana gets a free 300 damage nuke every 8 seconds on everything in a 650 range.

                                                                                              Zeus gets 215 damage on every hero on a 90 second cooldown spell.

                                                                                              Imo a decent upgrade would be for it add a weaker AoE follow up spell to anyone hit - ie the hero releases a chain lightning effect against enemies nearby from the affected hero as well so you would still get +145 damage on the enemy hero (down from +215) but have up to +5 chain lightings bouncing around various heroes and creeps.

                                                                                              All Hero Challenge

                                                                                                the aghs is depend on what type of player you are,
                                                                                                for me, i like pudge with aghs now and then, but 4 second on hook make it more IMBA,
                                                                                                for those that know how to hook properly, like ME.
                                                                                                zeus with aghs? i think it's good, imagine team fight , aghs, refresher, veil on ur zeus,.,
                                                                                                win situation if u do it right.

                                                                                                Stuckathome

                                                                                                  A lot of hate for Aghs on OD and generally I would agree, not worth spending money on. However if you have a moneybags alch then it can be situationally ok. It is less about the damage and more about using it as a crowd control tool that allows you to isolate players and deal with them in a favourable way. Of course it is situational depending on when you get it, enemy bkb activation timings and duration.

                                                                                                  In a fight the opposition may for example have aghs on the cores only so using the ult to take his supports out of the game for 4s can often be enough time for team to right click the cores down as 5 v 2 or similar. Then the supports after the duration are left outnumbered with reduced mana and some damage from the ult. If you get it late game (which is much more likely as there are much better items for OD force staff, atos, shiva, Scythe etc), and they all have BKBs (then you're a screwed OD!) you can use it to catch those late activators, or wait to take out those whose duration is down to 5s when others have longer; or if you get the jump then isolate those you choose.

                                                                                                  Yes it isnt a priority for OD but it can still be effective and is not detrimental to the team if used correctly. As with many things its more about the wizard than the wand.

                                                                                                  Murranji

                                                                                                    Hah, you'd have to be from SEA to think Aghs is good on Zeus.

                                                                                                    He needs boots - boots of travel
                                                                                                    He needs extra range and damage on his spells - aether lens
                                                                                                    He needs magic amplification - veil
                                                                                                    He needs a positioning item - blink if you need to go offensive, force staff if you need to go defensive.
                                                                                                    He needs Octarine core because the more spells he gets off in a fight the more static field hp removal he procs.
                                                                                                    He needs refresher because refresher allows two lightning bolts and gods wrath in quick sucession which with static field do more damage than the 215 damage from Aghs.

                                                                                                    Even if you can go without one of those items (eg if someone else on the team builds veil) then there are still items which are better for him than Aghs. Euls gives extra mana, regen and movespeed. Scythe of Vyse gives him additional lockdown. Ghost Sceptre->EBlade is sometimes needed against carries who can blink on you like PA/Riki. Bloodstone is better because the reduced death timer and gold saved and the bloodstone heal on death etc. Even a Rod of Atos would be more useful if your team lacks slows.

                                                                                                    That's why his aghs is one of the most useless in the game and even if you can be gifted one by Alchemist you shouldn't get it until every other hero with an Aghs upgrade has received theirs from him first.