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52 Kommentare
meromeofbacca

    First?

    Nikson

      Oh lesh

      Paracosam

        surprised to see axe where he is.

        EXCELSIUS
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          Boundless Strike in Gaben...

            we need storm back pls

            Byleth

              I don't think it's good to name the groups of heroes as you did. "Avoid" and "Repick" have a few heroes who are actually quite good pubstompers in the hands of someone who can play them, e.g. Ember Spirit, Meepo. And if you can play heroes like Batrider he's really good too. It's interesting to see what heroes are doing well in terms of winrate, was just iffy with the dismissal of some heroes who can be fantastic, which is only really fair if you're marketing this blog to a very casual player.

              JUDAS

                TImbersaw shouldn't be in the last list.

                RedRover

                  You say Puck has one of the highest skill ceilings but then go on to say there "are players who can unlock its potential almost fully." How can Puck be one of the hardest heroes to play when people haven't even unlocked the full potential of Arc Warden, Chen, Earth Spirit, etc etc?

                  The Zett

                    Heathen! The Warden should be #1!

                    Hannibal

                      wow, chen finally in meta

                      Haise

                        So glad to see Storm and QOP fucked because even know they are usefuls heroes

                        Yan

                          Nobody noticed the Skeleton King picture? LOL

                          Aldo, o Apache

                            Sorry but Oracle is not bad, actually he is really game breaking if played properly. I know this is a pub tier list, but there is a reason that oracle is a top pick on pro scene now, he has a good lockdown, some nukes, dispel and a better version of shallow grave. When used properly oracle can singlehandedly turn a fight.

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                            Boush117

                              I'm sorry, but naming parts of your guide "Avoid" and "Repick"just really irks me. I cannot stand people who want others to only follow the bandwagon and pick whatever is popular. What a fucking joke. The game has over a hundred Heroes, people deserve to be able to play whichever ones they want (as long as it fits the draft, whatever that happens to be).

                              I will admit, on the rare occasion somebody picks a Hero like Oracle or Meepo, I mentally prepare myself for the -25. However, this is only because not many people know how to play these Heroes to their full extent. Somebody wants to play Meepo and is okay? Sure, go ahead, as long as it fits the draft and you don't pick first.

                              biggie

                                'unless you count spamming a lot of buttons in predefined order “skillful”.' - Isn't that how you play every hero?

                                Neurosciencenews.com

                                  naisaa

                                  //CHARLOTTE//

                                    RİP Huskar...

                                    Snu

                                      With Dusa, and WK having such a high win rate, I'm surprised of where AM is placed...
                                      Also, Oracle is not nearly as useless as claimed. When he is used by someone who is skilled with him, he can be a great support.

                                      【=◈︿◈=】

                                        storm are fuc#ing annoying dude

                                        GreenTeaAddict

                                          OUR ONE AND TRUE KING IS IN THE PICTURE AT THE START!I miss him :'(

                                          EE fanboy Grand Magus

                                            Tinker still garbage.

                                            Murranji

                                              ^ @aldo, Elduryb, did you even watch Starladder at all? The hero was banned 4 times out of 41 games and had a 30% winrate going 3-7.

                                              Or what about the Shanghai regional qualifiers? Hero was picked 49 times with a 36.73% winrate. Top pick - in your dreams maybe.

                                              In other words he's just as bad in professional dota as he is in pubs. I am seriously sick of people ignoring reality and insisting "oh no he's really fine" in defiance of all available evidence. The hero needs a major frigging buff to be viable in either pubs or competitive. Right now he is a complete dog.

                                              Compare him to dazzle (since his entire ultimate is basically a longer cooldown shallow grave). What was Dazzle's winrate at Starladder? 75%. Dazzle's pub winrate? Just under 53%. That's what you call 'a great support'.

                                              Cheemgis Khan

                                                Does it mean that if my Furion is at 50% winrate, I am rather good Furion or that Furion in my hands is a solid pick or both at once? I just cannot believe that even through those buffs to him, he is still so low... Maybe, his micro is just tooooooooo difficoult for any kind of ordinary player, or his squishiness and lack of mobility such as blink or invisibility... Usually, when I lose game with Furion it is because of my team loses lane stage (I am playing offlane Furion, not sure if getting more levels than enemy offlaner is losing my lane lel), not because the hero is trash, his map control, gank-ability, lategame scaling into powerful pusher or even right click carry is insane along with his farming abilities. What is more, Alliance is no longer the only donger to pick Furion in pro scene. He may not score as much impact as getting yourself Chen, which I enjoy playing too, but he is still great tool to have in your laneup rather than seeing him in the hands of enemy team. Usualy when the enemy gets Furion, I cry my way out, cause if there is anything about DotA I hate, it is playing against your beloved hero, cause you know what kind of asshole he may become. I have to say that I absolutely do not agree with his prescence in a group so called "Avoid" he is Situational, sometimes more than that, he fits into great variety of laneups, same as Sylla. Sylla is actually wrongly put into "Situational" group, maybe based on winrate, which I dont get why he is that low, but in pro scene, Sylla is getting so much attention, more than that morphling, only Sylar being one to play Morphling tho and he playing morphling is just like AdmiralBulldog on Sylla, just signature picks, you expect them to own and so they do.

                                                Thanks for reading this comment, cant imagine anyone readint it whole.

                                                House Cat

                                                  SF is so hard to play now :(

                                                  Dexy

                                                    You label Omni and Abaddon as supports, but Abaddon's high winrate has come from him being played as a carry / core (judging by his most build items).

                                                    I think his winrate would be considerably lower if he was primarily played as a support - not to say he isn't strong as one, it's just a farmed Abaddon is very difficult to deal with in pubs.

                                                    Dieser Kommentar wurde geändert
                                                    Hoodoo Operator.

                                                      As with all statistics it's very easy to overlook some extremely important factors. Especially as we're looking at pub stats here I think we should consider that several of the heroes in the Repick group are actually very vulnerable to be picked by people who either have no interest in winning the game, or just got stomped by the hero in question and think that they can do it too. Axe/Brood/QoP/Meepo/Timber, with the exception of maybe Axe, are all good heroes in their current state. Yes, they have weaknesses but that makes them situational picks (as the author mentioned near the start of the article). I believe these statistics demonstrate a wide spread lack of player quality, rather than hero quality.

                                                      5'-7" Problem Child: Putin

                                                        Well the reason arc is so low is because in the scrub tier (sub 4k) barely anyone has good micro skills, which are needed to play arc effectively.

                                                        [FaO] JoJoBird

                                                          @Donald Trump Well they did say they sampled Very High Skill bracket. I'm not sure what the corresponding MMR is, but my guess is at least 3,5, possibly more, but as they said they don't want to base their sample around 5k MMR+, it's definitely under 5K.

                                                          WorstEUplayer

                                                            I really wish this was stratified at the different mmr levels. I outright refuse to believe all some of these. Very high skill = 3,5. And the game changes drastically from 4->5 and 5->6 with regards to what you can and can't get away with.

                                                            Desfase!

                                                              Volvo pls buff puck

                                                              Aldo, o Apache

                                                                @murranji actually I did, and also I`ve just watched DC kicking stark`s ass thanks to its oracle. The fact that the hero does not have a 50+ WR in pro scene is so irrelevant that even with this record, teams still prioritize oracle, thats just how good he is. Wining in pro depends a lot more on strategy than picks. Sure, sometimes one pick - like a magina in Navi`s case - can go really bad. But for a fighting line-up oracle is amazing.

                                                                J_A_P_G

                                                                  >OP thinks there is a repick tier
                                                                  AYY LMAO

                                                                  par73 KB24 | GTUBE

                                                                    man when people figure out arc warden it's going to be 50+ win rate ez

                                                                    chrysalis

                                                                      is this really an error?...Finally, the infamous Earth Spirit, after the Magnetic Grip nerf, "has becomes" a solid hero who doesn’t cause a disproportionate amount of frustration.

                                                                      kayeskay

                                                                        Once people know what the hell to do with Arc Warden he will be amazing, he has so much potential both push-wise and farm-wise

                                                                        msdominater

                                                                          To pub Arc Warden players- stop buying Dagon and/or Daedalus. Your job is to push those towers down, not to fight(mostly...sometimes fighting is necessary.) I'm talking to you, people who get Dagon and get your main self exposed while trying to double Dagon someone at min 50.

                                                                          Gondetarin

                                                                            shit 5k+ players pick invoker more than pudge

                                                                            hokuto shinken

                                                                              Avoid Ench? Are you frikken kidding me, man? She's like one of those heroes that can be viable on offlane solo vs most lineups that don't do hard burst-downs, no matter the skill-bracket. The fact that her official numbers are bad doesn't mean she should be avoided- far from it.

                                                                              Neurot1C

                                                                                QoP and Storm Spirit Place explains A lot.

                                                                                Facehat

                                                                                  How the fuck does terrorblade require micro now? The 900 range on his illusions basically turned him into a click and drag, "select all units" hero. Fuck off.

                                                                                  NotLikeThis

                                                                                    I'm honestly surprised to see enchant where she is, the dragon lance/aghs build might seem gimmicky but can be abused so easily in pubs.

                                                                                    Immaculatebacon

                                                                                      Well, in 5k+ games enchantress has a 53% winrate. So stop complaining and just understand that lower skill players don't play her right, and that she is good.

                                                                                      хер 11

                                                                                        Tiny winrate has dropped not because he is too slow for the current meta, but because he was directly nerfed. The change in Craggy Exterior no longer allows him to block an attack from the start, and missed attacks can no longer trigger it so Craggy Exterior now blocks less damage than it did.

                                                                                        K.♡

                                                                                          QoP :(

                                                                                          Ketan - S.Ikom

                                                                                            #savewinterwyvern
                                                                                            #saveoracle

                                                                                            ANAK PRESIDEN

                                                                                              Of course every hero is great and somewhat gamebreaking if picked by the right hand with the right draft, but that's not the point. It's only based on statistics and opinion, which is situational in itself. You don't blindly follow any guide/advice in Dota, you take notes of it and act accordingly. I'd say this is a well-written analysis, thank you very much KawaiiSocks!

                                                                                              nex

                                                                                                There is no point making categories with low bracket sticks. Oracle or Qop are very strong and stomp if well played. Lion DP or earthspirit arent at all situationnal but all-rounder. Drow Visage Shaman or Alchemist may win in lower bracket but do nothing after unless very situationnal compo, they arent 'solid' at all.

                                                                                                Stats

                                                                                                  Jugg has become the most satisfying carry since 6.83. The hero can be played by everyone, in any lineup, picked first or last with a fair win rate. Support players will never get nervous if they see jugg as carry.

                                                                                                  I Eat Trains

                                                                                                    I think we all need to understand that this isn't exactly saying that all the heroes in the low tiers are bad, just that they've been performing poorly which can easily mean that people who don't know how to play those heroes effectively are skewing the winrates.

                                                                                                    Orioli

                                                                                                      With 5k+ samples, the "pub tier list" is now "semi-pro tier list". Most people, by far, will be in between 2k~4k range, and if it is to make a pub tier list for most people to base their picks on, I'd say these would be much better brackets. 5K+ players don't need this advice anyways...