General Discussion

General Discussionnevermore greaves?

nevermore greaves? in General Discussion
Eoin

    2 patch has passed and it's my first time returning to dota after a 3 month break. i've seen lots of pros build greaves then manta on nevermore and i was wondering why? how does the patch affect nevermore now? thanks!

    kowareta

      i dont know about sf, but im rushing greaves on supports for long time, greaves is so good

      Marko Bulat

        Atos meta + sf is squishy as fuck, do the math

        Also sf has damage on his own and in top bracket people qre not braindead so you dont need to make your own items to setup kilss(euls/sb/blink) your pos 4 and 5 will do that for you.

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        Cheap Laugh Guy

          Not just SF. You can build it on Viper, OD, Pango. Maybe Necro and QoP too.
          Aura ranges are increased from 900 to 1200 and suddenly it's the aura meta.
          It's like the Vlad offlane patch(which was 2 months ago).

          Marko Bulat

            ^ also this, its just the game of "second best thing" Icefraud nerfs some shit people move to next, evryone rushed vlads, icedog nerfs, evryone rushed crimson nerf, then drums nerf, now people rush mek because its only cost effective item with easy buildup left in the game.

            Probably next patch mek and atos gonba get nerfed.

            Androgynous

              mid mek was a thing before because your mid hero gets it quickly and then you push towers / take fights with it. nerfs to mek's mana cost and cooldown, and arcanes upgrading into greaves means you rarely if ever buy mek and don't upgrade to greaves.

              atos is really good because root got repeatedly buffed (prevents escape abilities AND now cancels and prevents TP scrolls) and the stats are good. the components alone give 18 int and 8 str + agi, so you're almost getting a full crown and the active from the 850g recipe which means the active is valued at around 400g which is insanely cheap for long ranged catch, and early game most heroes won't have the items to disjoint / dispel it so it's going to land in most cases.

              because atos is good and lots of heroes buy it, you need a way to remove it. you can't always use bkb to remove atos when pushing out lanes so greaves and manta does that but manta also has the benefit of having better scaling than other dispels e.g. euls, lotus, bkb (though sf doesn't buy lotus).

              TheRRogue

                Fights right now is more of a prolonged fight. Which team that can survive the longest in team fight will win. That's why heroes like dp,razor and viper is strong in this meta. Buying greaves is crucial for your team to sustain.

                Kathir-

                  team Gambit got to a prize place on a major from open qualifiers with this build (and yes, mainly with this build, literally going sf greaves-manta every game), so now people are copying it. it gives good stats (not speaking strictly about str int agi here), defensive items are usually what sf needs, and besides sf excels at fighting with his team and there arent really any items better for it's cost that than the mek; greaves upgrades that into a bkb-like defensive item.

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                  Kathir-

                    also this build of manta first item started before atos was even a thing
                    shadow fiend gets targeted all the time, so you just manta dodge that shit - or you know there are many uses for manta, most of which sf likes.

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