I didn’t say it was a nerf just that his role has changed a lot. He’s not naturally as tanky, and he won’t do right click until 25. With spell steal maybe veil, mjollnir and octagons build? Break is only good vs certain heroes as it no longer reduces dmg so not strictly anti carry. More like anti PA.
![[Lk].Zano](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/b9/b98e01ce6ef4a5e926a44cdd1564d0e8e5fbfa36_full.jpg "[Lk].Zano")
Ah, I knew all single-active skill Heroes would eventually get reworked. Called it a long time ago.
giving him the ability to apply break is sure a nerf
ye man I prefer to buy a 5k+ gold item than to have a mechanic that I can use on a fucking AoE
A couple heroes are hugely countered by break like pa, bb, spectre, maybe anti mage, but vs everyone else is it really that good?
Besides I didn’t say viper would be bad just different. Apparently you guys think he’ll be awesome.
Nerfed? Nethertoxin is currently the most imba non-ulti spell. 400dmg (+ magic reduction, so it's more) nuke with 5s cd, 900 cast range, 8s break & 5s cd? How the fuck is that a nerf? It even reduces magic resistance & is AOE, so u can farm with it creeps. Just WTF?! This is just broken. He is still tanky, still can orb walk & now besides raping enemy mid, he is great in teamfights. Overall I think he is stronger, but less annoying to play against.
also viper has another obvious thing he did not have before
a reason to have a mana pool and actual wave clear
but he doesnt have a mana pool
and he doesnt right click anymore
this isnt a nerf, just a huge change to his playstyle, viper needs a mana regen item now imo
^well yeah, that's what I meant, you never went mana regen/pool items past aquila before, now you need something like... who knows what I don't know what items do anymore
The mana rework seems to benefit low INT heroes
The items give raw mana regen now
Drums 0.75 raw mana regen seems good
id say drums r gr8 option
smth like treads wand aquila drums
actually u may have to bottle on this hero now
Completely dumpstered the hero as any sort of midlaner or core. His Q is basically hot dogshit for damage now and corrosive nerfs his kiting by a lot. All he gets is a fucking 300 aoe PROJECTILE break which wears off as soon as you move outside the aoe. Nethertoxin was his main source of damage and now its just gone. He pretty much is a cheap counter to PA Spect BB. Why in the holy hell did the hero need a rework?
Why in the holy hell did the hero need a rework?
Because people didn't pick him even when he was a good pick, because he is not fun to play. People chose to lose games rather than play viper, just so they could have more fun.
He was also never fun to play against as well, and if he had his old nether toxin, combined with the new deny system where the opponent gets only 25% of the experience, he'd be hands down the most OP hero in the game.
Nethertoxin wrecks both your own and enemy creeps so last hitting/denying is a breeze, now imagine you deny all 4 creeps, that's literally the enemy midlaner getting 25% of the total exp of that wave. He'd need four full waves of creeps just to get the exp of one wave, provided you deny everything (and this isn't even unfeasable, since you have a pretty big window to deny creeps with nethertoxin and it is pretty easy to zone most heroes out).
I don't like the change to his first skill. You need Poison Attack to harass. But by the time you drop the enemy's health down to the level where the DPS starts getting serious, you probably would have run out of mana.
Nethertoxin now probably works on heroes like Axe and Legion Commander who need to stay still to do damage. Other than that, I can't think of anyone else. The skill itself does not slow. You need to combine both Viper Strike and Poison Attack to make sure the enemy cannot get out of there. Shadow Blade, Dragon Lance and Scepter should be purchased.
He doesnt have the manapool to sustain it. You might even need something dumb like aether lens early on and orchid later.
"Nethertoxin wrecks both your own and enemy creeps so last hitting/denying is a breeze,"
Where do you see that? I see nothing to indicate it hurts friendly units.
Reworked Nethertoxin. Releases poison onto the targeted area. Deals damage over time, reduces magic resistance and applies Break (disabling passive abilities) to those standing in that area.
AoE: 300
DPS: 20/30/40/50
Magic Resistance: -10/15/20/25% + Applies Break
Duration: 8
Cooldown: 5
Mana cost: 75
Cast Range: 900 (2000 projectile speed)
Note: This affects the area targeted on the ground, does not leave a debuff on enemies upon cast. Only active as long as they are in the area.
Ok. I'm actually blind. I didn't know it wears off when they leave area. So it's actually not that great.
Yes, it's only super good for farming, reasonably good vs certain heroes like PA, you lock them down and then apply break. Viper has a lot of slows, with his talent it's like a riki smoke minus miss but add break.
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Well he’s done as a right clicking carry. Removing nethertoxin is a huge change. Yes it’s eventually offset by 120 dmg at 25 but most games are decided by then and full nethertoxin was already 190 something damage. Plus the new silence on nethertoxin at 25 might be better than dmg. Think like Riki smoke minus the slow but spammable. That’s insanely good.
Also poison spit is heavily nerfed early but does a lot more dmg late. It slows more but that’s just to compensate for loss of slow on corrosive skin.
Skin seems kind of bad now. Viper loses a lot of tank ability with that change and loss of his hp and agility talents.
It seems his role now is pure utility magic dmg mid type player and won’t be suitable for safe lane anymore. Offlane might still be ok.
For me that’s a bummer cus I like carry viper. He might carve out a stronger role though on magic teams since he’s basically a walking veil debuff.
Thoughts?