General Discussionwhich draft is more likely to win at the mid-game mark, ceteris parib...

Chusay boy

lol first of all, what kind of clowny draft is this

doesnt matter, got a little debate with a friend and we're trying to figure out who's right

dire

the drafts are so bad it makes my head hurt. it seems like with equal farm dire would do better. better TF, no one who can really stop storm. and better matchups for dire. radiant seems like just pure dmg team that probably wont be able to do any dmg.

Dire, they actually have disables outside of unreliable troll bashes.

radiant because legion jungle

@BISKIT

At the 30 minute mark with all things equal; KDA, personal skill levels, total gold etc.

Storm cud win that match with almost any other heroes on his team if he knows what he is doing
He shits on radiant draft

Also Dire side can engage and disengage in teamfights more easily depending on whether or not they have the advantage. With Radiant, once a fight starts, they're pretty much locked in. Sniper, troll, and viper have no escape, unless they get something like pike, invoker has a mediocre escape with ghost walk, jugg can maybe spin and tp out, but then there's rp and duel to watch out for.

team with empover would win

nothing kills storm spirit, nothing defends sniper, so seems like dire have an advantage

i feel that most of the responses here did not factor in the mid-game 30 minute condition. I am actually on the radiant-side of this debate. I agree with dire being the likely winner if the question was, "from the start of the game, which draft is more likely to win", however doesn't it matter at which point of the game this question was raised?

for example, if the question came up during the late game 60 minute mark, wouldn't radiant be more likely to win given that they have more and harder carries and that all things were still equal at that given point (KDA, gold, exp)? or is my friend right, and that it doesn't matter whether it was mid-game or late-game.

If you have both teams going head to head, even if they had the same farm, levels and everything at the 30 minute mark, you're still dealing with a dire side that has actual aoe disables, and heroes like storm and lc that can disable a hero for a huge chunk of the team fight. Plus you have magnus actually strengthening pa and lc with empower, whereas radiant only has single target carries that have to slowly right click heroes to death, with invoker being the only hero on radiant with aoe and good disables.

if the question came up during the late game 60 minute mark, wouldn't radiant be more likely to win (as compared to the early or mid game) given that they have more and harder carries? this will clarify a lot of things for me.

mobility is the strongest thing to have in the lategame...so storm would become way too much of a problem ....even more than at 30 mins....like the scenario would be lc dueling invo storm jumping sniper then a three man rp into glaives and luna ult...and dire has literally nothing to deal with this

Only way radiant could possible win fight even in late game is on high ground . Where as dire team would win pretty much guarenteed at any other part of the map . They may even win on radiant high ground but I think they have a legit chance there .

if the question came up during the late game 60 minute mark, wouldn't radiant be more likely to win (as compared to the early or mid game) given that they have more and harder carries? this will clarify a lot of things for me.

Listen my boy, I know you're on the Radiant side of the argument, and even with all your impossible, hypothetical situations where KDA, Networth and Farm is the same on both sides, which it will never be, the Dire wins. You have the same low skill mentality that hard carries = more damage, but you don't take into account disables. Disables win games. The only time teams with heavy disables will lose is if they don't have enough followup damage for them. In this case, they have enough of it.

You got plenty of advice from blue star and non-blue star players alike. And they are all telling you the same thing. The more realistically you hypothesize this, and the higher the skill level you apply this to, the further this is confirmed. Just admit you're wrong and concede to your friend.

CETERIS PARIBUS

Ceteris paribus lol, I remember my Microeconomy lecturer that was abusing this statement.

at the 30 min mark if all those cores are farmed well and same amount of farm , hereos on dire side naturaly counter mostly of radiant. if it is for a open fight somewhere on the map radiand stand no chance. the only chance radiant have is defending on high , but still i see no way how radiant can stop a bkb luna with a aegis on on storm or at any hereo in dire side but storm is best for aegis, i see it imposible for dire to do something to stop that bkb luna hiting theyr rax, with all that back up and counter initation that dire have with lc and magnus, yes sniper and invoker is a problem cause they can defend from long range, but yet dire have the tools to deal with the back lines, theyr have best hero for that job " storm spirit " also pa is rly good, to clean the back lane of radiant while luna is hiting rax ,and while lc and magnus waiting in back lines for a counter initiation.( you can also remove the aegis factor i think almost for sure).

If viper changed with void or any aoe disabler heroes i go Radiant side.

How do you lose as MK in high skill game !?

Neither
Since it would be a 1k average game and none of the tower would even get touched by min 30

dire by far. Just cus you said all things equal team wise in terms of farm, that doesn't mean there is enough farm at 30 mins for 5 core radiant team. Jug troll and viper splitting farm, 2 of them will just die quickly mid game. PA and storm and possibly lc too can just jump sniper and kill him. Invoker isn't super strong til late game. By 30 mins it's doubtful radiant is ready to deal with PA blur and no way they can deal with storm.

guys it's TI8 winning Troll Warlord strat ofc they win

In fact dire have a bigger advantage the later the game goes. Who do u think they will take out first? Sniper right? Well look at the dire draft. All those heroes counter sniper. Storm mag and lc shit on sniper. But most of all. Empowered PA shits on all of them. Dire can just focus on a snowballing empowered PA strat and kill radiant in a couple of hits. So pa with empower + bkb + abyssal jumps on sniper, lc blinks and duels troll with blade mail before troll can use whirling axes, and magnus rps invoker and storm and luna deal with the rest. Radiant's good high ground defense strategy shattered

Also, as long as dire has the brain to take out healing ward first, nobody gives a shit about jugger :p

shit draft lmao

It's okay if you don't understand fundamentals of Dota.

Misconception of Low level Dota is that more carries = better. Assuming u get to late game. Sometimes that's true in 1k. But I think the overwhelming majority here agree dire draft is better