1. Pick a hero you want to learn.
2. Play a few games by yourself in unranked, just to get a general feeling.
3. Go to Dotabuff/Opendota, select a hero, go to top players.
4. Pick from 5k+ players, who have a reasonable winrate on that hero in solo ranked matchmaking and played recently. Preferably pub players, as pro players have unreasonably inflated rankings.
5. Download their replays, PM them in Dota, find their Twitch. Watch and analyse, if it's a stream/successful PM, ask questions.
Spot small details, watch at least 10 different replays.
6. Pick multiple players like that, aggregate the analysis and draw more general conclusions.
7. Try out your findings in lobby. Test them out in unranked.
8. Repeat 1-7. Your skill on a hero, average stats per match should grow. At a certain point, you reach a threshold, where you just rape everyone at your MMR due to relative excessive macro/micro/knowledge dominance.
9. You progress to the next few hundreds of MMR. You may start losing more, as your enemies got better and matched up your previously attained skill threshold.
10. You start repeating 1-7 yet again with even more attention to detail. The higher the rating, the more small mistakes you should look for. Analyse rare drafts, specific matchups with Opendota by searching, where a specific player played against a specific hero.
11. You reach the threshold again and progress to the next couple hundreds of MMR.
12. Repeat 4-11, until you can.
Repeat 1-11 for a different hero, if you want to learn a new hero.
That's my method since 2k and I'll stick to it. I am sure, it will succeed.
So with that system you go with watching 5k+ players and learning from them? Even if the enviroment they play in is different from your own?
I like that list btw :D I'm going to save it.
I'm already doing all those things.
In ranked I literally dont play heros or builds I didnt try out before or feel comfortable with.
I check every time after a game what item helped, and which didnt, or which could help.
And when watching plays I do the same. I draw conclusions and all.
What I find problems with is that, while high ranked players can rely on their team or their enemies doing smething specific, my team/enemies on my level (whiles reliable too) will do something compleatly different. So the same tactics dont work.
Like... for excample a 2-3 null talisman OD is something you hardly ever see. They'll get at max 1 null and then go for the next item, meaning they'll farm for longer before they leave mid to gank or get kill potentual on their opponent.
Or a CM that uses the jungle for half her exp and only shadows the farming lane is rare. Most of the time she just sits in teh same lane and scares the opponent with her presence. But that will mean both will level slower than the other team.
The same works on the opponent's side. Rarely I've seen an Abaddon hold a lane by himself, even though I know from pro games that he totally can. So whenever one IS alone in a lane he either is easy picking or compleatly stomps me and my lane partner.
So I'm stuck with never knowing if I shoudl expect my allies/opponent to function as they are supposed to, or better/worse than I am used to, or neither.
That's why I'm not sure if I should watch 5k games to learn or if I should watch 2k games to learn.
Just some excamples.
if you can play well you can win a lane by yourself because 2ks will tank creep aggro and you can just back off and watch them die to creeps
or for example if you check items like an actual human being you will know if someone has no stout shield, you can just go trade hits and rape them
easiest though is just to go mid because its a 1v1 lane and 1v1ing a 2k is guaranteed freefarm + kills and then you will snowball out of control and can solo win with almost any hero
@sisyphean
True.
But what I mean is less learn the worse habbits but more... if you want to call that.. Learn the meta just above you? Or learn the meta of the best players at all.
Like some heros for excample are super strong in the 5k meta, but super weak in the 2-3k meta. So if I play one of those heros, should I learn the 5k play style, or the 2-3k play style.
All that with assuming that once I get better I learn from better players than before too.
You know, learning in a step by step ladder way, or in a direct near vertical slope.
Not saying you guys are wrong. I'm just telling you why I am confused and uncertain.
Also btw. I dont realy care about getting high mmr.
I care about training to become a better player. That's my goal.
Don't rely on your team?
Like, you can adapt the gained knowledge.
Never had a problem with it. Have realistic expectations. Don't learn from 5x5 CM pro matches, but from high avg pubs instead.
At 5-6k avg one may get a mentally retarded team too. People sometimes throw, sometimes tilt. Sure, they do play better, but the environment is similar.
Like, I've spectated a game, where a 6.1k OD broke his items, because he didn't want to play in a 5.3k avg.
Better macro/micro, but sometimes supports just jerk around and feed, as if they're 4k, like in my pubs.
A very similar environment for sure.
Theres two reasons a hero is stronger at higher mmr
The first is drow ranger syndrome. A high mmr drow pick is usually going to have tanky ranged frontliners and a balanced pushing lineup. Very early on players will group as 5 and shove down towers and rosh with their high damage. You can't really replicate this in 2k with any reliability because nobody will group until 40 minutes, so trying to replicate this is pointless
The second is more like visage. Visage has a low winrate in low mmr because people cannot play him well. High mmr visage players are very good at visage and rape games constantly because the hero is amazing. Low mmr visage players fail to manage cloak or birds and usually die stupidly or do not do much damage. A low mmr player can still succeed with visage if they gain the skills necessary to play visage, it is not as team dependant
It's much better for you to learn individual skills than overarching advanced "strategy" in most cases. Should your team rosh at 25 minutes after killing their mid? Yes, but you can't always rely on your team to do it even if you tell them to. Some heroes can just do it themselves and some can't
But if you master basic laning and teamfight tricks and get 40 more creeps than the enemy laner, you are going to win way more than you lose. Items translate into won fights no matter what position you are, and if you already know how to win fights it will be easy
You don't have to be carry either. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3349952328 This game I'm 2/0/7 by 15 minutes as essentially a pos 5 ES, and even though mid lost pretty hard and spectre had uninterrupted farm a few good teamfights let us pull the game back. The benefit of one player not dying and playing well in teamfights is huge
@one step ahead
But I have to rely on my team to a certain extent. Dont I?
I mean, it's a team game.
And especially as a support you can't realy finish the game (unless you push high ground like between 20-30min sure)
I know there's retards everywhere XD not saying I'm stuck cause of them.
I've been with many good and interesting and avarage and bad players. What I'm talking about is the average player doing averagly good/bad things and how I can train my reflexes to anticipate the right thing in the different skill brackets.
Cause there IS a skill difference between the 1k , 2-3k and 5k braket. Even if all brackets suffer from retards, assholes, noobs and throwers
if you put a 1-3k player in a 5k above game, he/she will feed.
if you put a 5k above player in a 1-3k game, he/she will destroy them. Be a 5k above player my friend
There is no special playstyle for very low MMR.
You just pick whatever you can rape a lane with and dominate the map.
Borrow aspects of play, which will augment these qualities.
Meta is dogshit, IMO.
At least at 2k, you can rape with pretty much anything that snowballs/gets rapid net worth.
If you want to learn individual skills like laning, you are better off looking at high mmr players
If you want to learn how to behave to win a game (large picture), you are best off looking at boosters near your mmr, but if you can't do that try to find a very high % winrate player in that mmr bracket
There is no special playstyle for very low MMR.
You just pick whatever you can rape a lane with and dominate the map.
Borrow aspects of play, which will augment these qualities.
Meta is dogshit, IMO.
At least at 2k, you can rape with pretty much anything that snowballs/gets rapid net worth.
you or i can, yes. but even a mechanically 2k mmr player who is average at laning could gain hundreds of mmr simply by learning what to buy and how to use it to win teamfights for his 2k compadres. That afk farm rad doom lives twice as long with a solar crest on him, and your bootsless viper can suddenly get a triple kill if you can force staff him into fleeing enemies
@sisyphean
So you say best I play heros who's success depends on player skill and not teamwork?
@one step ahead
So you say I worry about something that I shouldnt be worrying about yet? (seeing I'm bellow 2-3k) But instead just keep focusing on my heros and my personal skills even if I end up often in moments where I feel like I've missanticipated allie/enemies behaviour taht is usual on higher levels and not on mine?
yes. but almost every hero can win with player skill and not teamwork if you play well. im saying you should focus on player skill and not teamwork.
the teamwork you can expect is the teamwork that YOU make happen. you need to be the guy tping when they dive and getting free kills, and the guy winning trading wars because you don't aggro their creeps and they aggro yours. you get to pick when your team smokes, and where you want wards. prbably over half of my mid games i buy at least one observer, just because being safe from 4:00 to 11:00 is worth a million times more than 65 gold
even as support i could probably have a very high winrate in 2/3k. The impact of one good player is huge whether he is on sf or ww
I have a rule.
I ask for a cour, wards, etc., but if they don't get bought, I buy them myself.
I buy obs/sentry for myself, gem, smoke, dust, whatever is needed.
I asked and if it wasn't bought in a minute, I'd just buy it myself.
You should literally never rely on the existence of your team. I've always played from a perspective of "my team won't do anything and I am OK with it".
You expect the worst. It eases the struggle and makes games super easy, when the team turned out to be good.
*nods* alright^^
Thanks you two :D
I'll keep working on my own skills then and start doing what I need myself if I team didnt do it already.
What do I do about knowing what to expect or anticipate from my enemies? Thta's the second part.
Higher skilled enemies suprise me on a regular basis, while the enemies on my level dont tend to suprise me that often.
The easiest way to learn how better players behave is just to play with them more often. That'll happen naturally if you gain mmr
In general higher mmr players are more aware of cooldowns, and more likely to play aggressive against their lower skilled opponents. Their better item builds and lane skills mean they usually get ahead on hp early, and they get more xp because they can deny and shove the enemy out of lane. They're more likely to use wand or fairy fire to win early engagements, and more likely to build early game items like raindrop, stick, and wind lace
Some people will use this advantage to farm, some people will run around killing people, and some will solo rosh and then get their team to push, which is really hard to play against
Even in 4k I get a ton of kills on TA by walking into the enemy mid when refraction is about to expire, so I get double the block and damage procs. Similarly, it's easy to kill a low skill puck because they will waste illusory orb and then have no way to escape if you jump them.
But again, I play almost offlane only and I am just a mid-4k road-to-gitgud shitstain. Keep that in mind.
Though, as I've initially been 2.1k, I felt eligible to reply.
I play solo heroes and I don't actually need supports in the offlane, thus my gaming viewpoint is very offlane-centered and may be biased to solo play. I just naturally don't rely on supports as pos. 3 spammer.
So adjust suggestions to all these facts.
@sisyphean
So I should expect the best from my opponent? Wount I be missing out on kill potentual that way? Like... wount I miss out on capitalizing on my enemies mistakes/lack of skill?
@one step ahead
It's fine answering XD honestly I wouldnt mind if you were a 1k or lower player and gave those answers :)
If you make sense and can back up your words (which you do both) it's fine with me and all that I'm looking for
Last, but not least.
I've jumped a few hundred up, when I started to memorize cooldowns and spell stats.
E.g. I know by heart how skills scale on the heroes I play.
Or when I play Brood vs someone like Jakiro, I have it in my mind, that he can cast his Q only 3 times without additional mana regen in lane. That at low levels, his Q is 10 sec. CD and his E is 20 sec CD.
I have it memorized for many troublesome AOE heroes and it helped me really well.
At 4k they just don't expect me to actually memorize and count their cooldowns. It helps to make kills, as I know, when I can attack, when an opponent has no mana or can't use a spell.
Lately, I've also made it a habit to put down timings of Rosh/major ultimates like Ravage/Black Hole/etc.
It really did help me to get 150 extra MMR or so.
Same with your spells.
Like, I know that Brood's Q damage scales as 70*X, where X goes from 1 to 4.
So, I know that damage my nuke hits at every level by heart.
These small details make extra kills. It may sound like bullshit, but that's the truth.
You should try to see how good your opponent is during the game
The better they play, the better you should expect them to play. Still I've had people own me mid the first few waves and then completely shit the bed, never expect players to be perfect
If the enemy has hp so that you can just dive them and kill them, do it. You should be able to look at them and see if you can kill them if you go just by their hp/mana/level compared to yours, and if they and you have a stick or fairy fire
thank god people stopped buying faerie fire even though it got 5g cheaper i lost like 100 mid lanes just because i dived a guy with 2x ff and died
when you watch people play, its best you learn
-what they do at each different time phase of the game
-what items they go early game, and why they do it
these two are good factors when you learn about particular hero, so its best if you watch players who play the same heroes in same role.
if you want to learn about role, find some decent mid and watch how he plays different mid and do all the mechanics and stuffs.
Do not watch pro players that will be bad. for many reasons. watch 5k ish. or perhaps 6ks and hero spammers.
the reason you dont wanna watch pro games and or even 6k+ games
is because you will have zero chance of getting the idea behind strats
that are done without mentioning it.
You dont wanna watch Teamplay to learn Soloplay.
that said there are things to learn from pro plays aswell.
But its better to check 5k+ games since they are more random in their plays.
Bitte melde dich an um Kommentare zu posten.
Ok. Question....
When you are learning games like Dota, to become better at them, is it a good idea to watch pro players?
Or is it better to watch players that are just a little above your own skills?
Considering the 5k+ players have other 5k+ players playing with them and thus play in a compleatly different envirioment then the a 2-3k that plays with other 2-3k players. With people at +/- 1k the difference between the enviroment they play in compaired to a 5k+ player enviroment is even bigger.
So... is it good or even worth it to watch a 5k player and 'copy' him?
I mean, you can always learn farming patterns or skil combos.
But thinks like positioning, game timings, hero combos/synergies, etc. is much harder to use in an enviroment that is just not what you play in. For excample, watching the pros in dream league for excample, there are fights where just the entire team comes in to help and win it cause of that while at a 2-3k mmr game people might just let you die cause tehy dont want to interrupt their farm or want not to die also. Or pros and 5k mmr teams smoke gank. While on 1-2k mmr noone even buys smoke like...ever.
So... again... Should a non pro / 5k+ person even watch pro players to learn from them? Or would it be better to watch someone closer to your own level?
And if so... where can One find those people? Cause so far I've mostly found people in the 3-4k+ bracket that are teaching, streaming or making videos about dota. Noone in the 1-3k or bellow 1k bracket.