Vlad maelstrom cost as much as BF,
unreliable farming speed and mana sustain on a hero thay relies on getting ahead in terms of farm to be relevant.
It has been debunked a lot of times before by AM spammers around
I've won with solar crest greaves pos 5 void but that doesn't mean it's legit.
Exactly why I was asking if it was possible, because it costs as much as BF. It represents an alternative. Like you're saying, a shitty alternative, but still stands as one nonetheless. I also get my manta around the same time as I would from a BF build. And it's meant to fight, not farm. Better attack speed means a higher damage output from mana break, then ult to finish them quickly.
In the late game, mjollnir butterfly, lvl 15 +AS, lvl 25 +agi, incinerates mana, hits at max AS so also rips into HP as well. That's why I saw potential in this build, because it has natural late-game build up, unlike BF where you sell it for something else once you're farmed up.
BF is not just for farming. AM is a big split pusher. The BF helps him split push immensely. It also lets him quickly farm the enemy jungle, which reduces the risk of getting ganked. If you want to fight with AM, why not just pick another hero that is meant for it?
I am very certain you can get faster manta timing if you build AM normally while still not being an afk farming noob like fx.
Well not long ago you could buy maelstorm on AM and nobody had a problem. I think its legit, since as you already said, its more of a fighting build. its not made for farming (altough you still can).
since you are going mid as AM i think its a good idea to go this build, but on the other hand, why are you going antimage mid? If you are facing a decent mid he will either destroy you or you will both trade farm. If you would have picked a diffrent mid you could either lose mid, trade farm or even win the mid. And i doubt that you can win mid with an AM (well against a storm you actually can if you burn his mana at lvl 1).
After all i think its a legit build, but why play AM mid
vlads mael is a rly bad alternative to battlefury
mael is an unreliable farming item because its proc chance + vlads doesnt provide as much mana regen as battlefury in exchange for sustain (which u dont need anyway if u did go fury since it has hp regen)
not to mention its slot inefficient. why get 2 items when u can get better results with just one? in my experience this build wont help u fight any better thn fury (vlads is only bought to SURVIVE axe/lc)
plus why do u even need to fight as AM before 20 mins anyway? lmao thats a rly suboptimal way to play the hero, why cant u just play troll/lifestealer
@.zaB I usually go AM mid when vs a mana-heavy hero, like Invo or Storm. Otherwise yeah I'd safelane it. But I'm talking about the build regardless of lane. Going AM mid, it seemed like the logical choice, as it meant I had to be active in the midgame. But for a safelane AM, would it still be the same story, or would it just lose in all categories to battle fury?
The common theme of criticism I'm getting is "should've picked a fighting hero if you were going to fight midgame". Just assume I picked it early in the pick phase(meaning I didn't go into the game specifically with this build, but rather keeping it as an option). then the enemy team goes either a heavy midgame or heavy lategame lineup.
For the midgame lineup scenario, the options are mael vlads, weaker split push and farm but option to join team and fight, or battle fury, purely farm and split.
For the lategame lineup scenario, mael vlads to take the fight to them before they come online, or battle fury to out-lategame them.
heuheuheuheuheuueheu
NS players are stupid enough to skip treads before bfury, now they're going full out and skipping the bfury as well
Excuse me? my mmr is 3.8k and according to valve i am above average (2.1k) AND also considered as a very high skilled player so my opinion must be respected and my analysis on the game is legit and im going on factual basis. I dont like to kiss ass of any pro without any reason. U have no right to critisize it u bastard .
I don't skip treads lmao, I know how to tread switch, though tyvm for gracing my forum thread Cookie.
no good mouse trap who are talking to btw? Didn't criticize your opinion lmao
yes you can skip bfury but only situationally against certain lineups where you'll be playing a very early and active am. except you don't get maelstrom nor vlads and just directly go manta.
@L- for sure there is. But I'm talking about circumstance, and viability in that circumstance. And this proposed build is just to leverage the gap of being forced into fighting early, while maintaining a semblance of what his normal, "split push until fat" style
getting maelstrom is counterproductive
you're intending to skip bfury because it's a game where a farm accelerator is bad. so getting maelstrom is eh...
Ok, I see. Thanks for the input, either battle fury or straight to manta for fight, no maelstrom vlads. 😊
I think Maelstrom is a good alternative, especially for a fighting AM. I would, however, gotten a vanguard over Vladimir's just to beef yourself up, based on your lineup buying battlefury would have just eaten into your Spectre's farm. The build up of Maelstrom is also better and you are right for certain scenarios regardless of lane, different builds would be advised just that with AM, battlefury is usually 95% of the times the correct options, this game, however, would be the 5%.
^Get Linken's, Orchid/Blood Throne, go Vladimir's later, or Drums numerous options being position 2 in that lineup.
if you want to join fights early then why are you picking antimage there are so many heroes can do that imo its only reducing your farming speed
You are dealt a hand of cards if only you had an Ace you would have gotten a Royal Flush. I'm not debating the fact you could use a different hero for that purpose, I'm merely stating that Maelstrom is an alternative to Battlefury specifically for the game OP provided.
Some dude memed with linken rush AM once in a 3.7k avg game I had before and he did pretty well
But then again, it's probably only because he's a good antimage than the build being viable
this thread shows how much of an underrated stat mana regen is
prob the reason why 3k below players also skip the mana regen talents
did you guys know
its still better to go for battlefury instead of a half-assed fighting build
you know why?
because going for a fighting build doesnt necrssarily mean AM can suddenly fight like troll/lifestealer/lycan
i doubt that vlads/mael "fighting build" will be enough to fight axe/lc so save urself the trouble because ur just gimping urself further
Okay... last time I respond to this thread as it seems we are just going around the same topic as I have said in my previous post that majority of the games you play with AM you will want to buy Battlefury, however, there are circumstances wherein you might want to opt for a different build, As with building OP posted game, a Battlefury would eat into Spectre farm whom I'm assuming is position 1, while OP could have picked another hero given his "situation" Maelstrom was a viable option.
That's All I'm saying, stop giving me the argument he could have done something differently, I think OP clearly knows that.... I believe he was asking if it was an "Alternative" Option, and it is at least IMO. Done. Goodbye, see you all in other thread.
I experimented with no battlefury build a bit with am.
So I think if you wanna fight. Your thinking hAs to be along the lines of -Not delaying your manta timing while having some early game item that lets u fight while sort of filling the role of battlefury. I don't think maelstrom is that item. It's not so much the farming but the mana sustain. I've tried dragon lance orchid, echosabre.
Echo sabre seems to fit the role more. Gives u some sustain. Let's u fight sort of. Get vanguard with it as well which is crucial if ur a shit hero like am and want to fight early. Maelstrom doesn't tAnk u up.
If u survive early game I Guess mjolnir is not too bad for damage as a last item and u need wave clear and damage.
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Got flamed because I went mid AM(team: you feeling Miracle pro?), then did not go battle fury, instead opting for vlad's and maelstrom, into manta, trail off into normal AM build from here, with a sidestop to upgrade to mjollnir. One won game later, with a K/D of 16-2, they grovelled at my feet. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3290342606
That stupid normal skill story aside(yes, I am normal skill so flame me for that as well), I want to know what you, the high lords of the Dotabuff forums section, think about such a build. I've used it in most of my recent AM games, to a decent win rate, both with a stack and solo queue. It's somewhat more of a fighting build, but can still be used to increase farm respectably. Insert flaming below.