General DiscussionWrong itemization, bad impact, bad decisions or what? Help me figure ...

u dont buy pusher item. if i were u i end the game ASAP, like seriously sniper with 400lh and am 600 lh???
mkb for wat? no one have evasion and if the sniper in hg just buy blink and kill him he is squishy hero. if u buy mjolnir and manta u can push the game and end the game ! (i assume u have early advantage because ur 15min dl). also u dont counter am ! and let him free farm. so many mistake i see but if i in your situation i dont think i can do better lol

if i were u and the game reach 50 min i sell my item and go afk base lol. fvcking cancer sniper hg

you didn't end the game 25 minutes in

"mkb for wat?" - Am had evasion, he just sold it later on(at the very end of the game, i think 50-ish mins into the game)

Mjonir and manta are interesting option actually. But then I'd had to sell BKB or MKB, and MKB wasn't an option since AM had bfly.

Ye I think you're right, I'm supposed to cordinate my team and tell them what to do, and the gameplan should clearly be end A.S.A.P because AM/Sniper = GG for us late.

However, we had so many chaotic fights, I was mostly the one TP-ing back to defend AM's counter push, and I can't splitpush because he'll just melt our towers/raxes(he just pushes faster than me, and can engage/disangage at will)

I guess I missed my momentum, but I remember killing him 3 times early game, and delaying his items as far as I could... I even remember that I was top networth for AT LEAST first 20-25 mins, I also remember that around 10-15 mins I came few times to preasure his lane and make him go back...

I was focused mainly on killing AM, but somehow he just managed to get BF and at that point it was game of defending our base against him..

If someone could review this game by downloading my replay I'd appriciate that a lot. Hell, if he's at least 5k I'd give him items in return just to help me out figure out how could I won this..

Clearly I'm lacking something to end that game 25 mins in. I do remember our warlock sugested me to get rosh and push, and I said to him that we need to pick them off first, which never happened.

Despite the fact I was pretty well farmed during entire match, it's not like I was the only one. Sniper got decent farm, AM did hit decent timings because Weaver wasn't able to stop him. Now it may sound like I'm contradicting myself, because I just said I killed him 3 times(2 times and once with help of Tree to be exact), but him getting PT/battlefury 20 mins into the game is pretty decent still.

I just didn't feel like it's easy to siege their HG 20 mins into the game, and I'll tell you why;

Our Troll was literally @ 20 mins Vlads+Phase and he got stuck in the jungle trying to farm his SB.. Maybe he'd come to help us, but I just had that feeling in my guts that they'd just wipe us out if we tried to push that early.

Like our Weaver had nothing, Warlock, same, Troll, Same... Tree was in bad shape aswell.

I just felt like it would be me pushing against 5 heroes with 4 creeps. :-/

Check the GPM for Warlock, Weaver and Tree? It's 200..

I mean, 58 mins into the game and they were nowhere close to hitting 25.

I guess my question is:

HOW DO I PUSH ASAP as well-farmed SF if 4 of my teams are uncortinated and literally 0 ITEMS in inv?

troll has ult, warlock and tree have sustain and teamfight, imo it'd be better to group up early if you were snowballing and then get towers and rosh. if you are ahead you should keep pressuring the enemy not split up the map and keep farming cos you either get picked off or you give them more time to farm.

no need to look for pickoffs when they're forced to come to you cos you're hitting their buildings. if they don't come to you then you just take rax in 20 seconds.

yeah they don't have items but supports don't need them and troll can just stand back press R and give vlads aura if he was that poor.

u cud have gotten a mek/urn on ur team, ur troll has vlads, weaver has deso, and you can just walk down mid, its rlly hard to stop an sf troll push at like 20 min in, plus u have golems, and an assload of sustain with tree + warlock, I don't see how they cud have stopped u that early. instead u have a 31 min midas warlock. ???
I'm pretty sure sf pushes faster than am, how do they even catch u, their team has zero disable there is almost nothing stopping u from ratting. I wud consider buying blink and just ratting if ur team wont coordinate and push together. I'm pretty sure this game was super winnable.
also I wud consider finishing pike.

I'd appriciate someone writing down the scenario in which we push pre 20 mins their HG with me having only farm.

the only way in this patch to win with shit heads is to get 800 gpm pre 30 minutes, or to snowball really hard. you have to do 1 of the 2

Why cuirass though? Wouldn't butterfly be better there? Although i think it won't do much in the lategame anyway

ideally u have mek on tree by 20ish min, urn on warlock, some arcanes, a deso on weaver, and a vlads on troll, and u having something like lance or sb.

5 man stick @15 mins, u have treant, warlock, sf, troll, which means you have great pushing, teamfight potential.

They don't want to listen, it's insane. To be fair, why would they. It's not like I'm 5k and they are 3k. Even if that'd be the case, I doubt they would listen.

I tried nicly telling warlock to get urn, aghs... Tree to get Aghs aswell, he went refresher and ended up having to mana to use ult twice. :[

Here's one more mystery game(at least for me)... Tried my best, obviously, not enough.. and lost it;

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3263284227

Any help would be appriciated.

I got free time 'till the weekend and I wanna grind some MMR.

Looking at the draft you have strong team fight and needed to fight push end earlier. But they have good hg and good split pushing with your limited lock down aside from 2 big ultimates. I'm guessing am had an easy time split pushing and preventing u from grouping up as you are the only real wave clear.

U needed to teamfight and force fights objectives without getting ratted was what u needed to do.

I think weaver needed much more farm to be useful that game. From a team perspective, that's probably your strategic mistake. Weaver is the only real mobile hero since none of u bought blink. I'm guessing sniper just Rekt u guys with bristle in the front.

From an individual play perspective, I'm not sure how u could've prevented them from doing what they did.

If you can't find out why u lose to 3ks, u honestly just have to look at how efficient u were. And that's not just about farm, but how efficient u are in applying pressure around the map when they are still weak and pressing whatever advantage u have

^that game was not your fault, you did the right choice going for bkb @20mins, perhaps your supports are lacking in rotations and your clinkz even went for deso instead of solar crest and bkb

And that's not just about farm

With SB and Troll I am surprised that you didn't complete your Hurricane Pike. Key item on SF if you need to escape some nasty melee heroes like SB and Troll.

Pretty sure skadi is also nasty for melee cucks

It's literally impossible to escape freaking troll. This guy ults me from Silver Edge and I'm dead in a matter of secs.

He killed me 3 times the same way. No chance to run.

On the other hand, guy who sugester mljonir on SF for splitpushing and defending, ty mate, tried it, worked I guess

If you pick SF every game you have to wonder whether it's really the pick you need, too. I know you are asking questions specific to your SF pick, but maybe you should reconsider whether you go SF at all.

personally i don't think sf can be picked that often,sometimes i just stopped myself from picking him remembering how squishy he is

its your weaver fault . how the fuck weaver only have 200 gpm . its not ur fault . your weaver is just irrelevant the entire game. see his recent game , all losses . that game is weaver fault for dealing minimum relevant thing in your game basically 4 vs 5

N O R M A L S K I L L

^ savage

Skill bracket doesnt matter as long as you are having fun........

feels much better to lose to 5ks than to 3ks

Honestly I refuse to belive that insta-picking SF is not good in normal skill. Like, it's fucking 3100 right now. I'm just doing something wrong.

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3263394130

At least that game I really did something wrong (died bunch of times and failed mid)

XD

In your last game, vertox, your team already had a shitton of physical damage against a Sven and Meepo. SF Agh's is situational, but in that game, that was the build to go. A little more tankiness, and your ult will do a lot more for those fights (esp. considering other team was riding on Sven's armor, Pugna's save from physical damage, and no real counter to magic damage).

i didnt know MOM was core on sf now

TBH, Sven is one of my favorite heroes to play against as a pos. 1 or 2. If I am generally a high Physical DPS hero, it forces me to get a little creative.
Last time I played against a Sven as Lifestealer, I went Armlet, Silver Edge, Mjonrill, and Bloodthorne. Not the standard build at all, but melted Sven nonetheless.

I just dislike aghs, I used to build it, but that item is just cancer on him(in a bad way).

I like MOM on him if I'm ahead, it can really do well

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3264392046

For example that last game, Mom was pretty damn good.

Mom against Meepo and rest of their team was just me desperatly trying to do something, since I failed mid badly. xD

You should've gotten butterfly over ac imo and forced am and sniper into mkbs as it hurts a lot less than daedulus on sniper and am probably would've not gotten heart.

It's hard to win when weaver is that awful though, not level 25 on a 58 minute game? wtf was he doing? While you and troll take front lines he should be zipping to their back line to shred sniper and silencer every fight. That sniper is a glass cannon, no defensive items and he took sharpnel damage AND cd reduction over hp and armor. Weaver could probably 3 shot him with two germinate procs, and he has invis and ult to escape.

mkb for evasion lmfao xdddddddd when u can get butterfly for yourself and skadi for more damage , more hits = less evasion hit cause you hit fucking fast and you're super tanky

ANtimage had Bfly, so I had to take MKB. I don't understand how Skadi relates to "more damage".. Last time I've checked it doesn't give you much damage.

i know how you lose you didn't pressure am and kill him many times , and i thought troll and treant was the counter to am? plus, u cud have blink instead of dlance silver edge find sniper and go kill that kid cause he has low armor and u had no satanic???????

Skadi doesnt give dmg? hey try using skadi and bfly together u see difference

u can just go bfly satanic mkb ac adn blink and try asking ur team to smoke up cause u have troll and warlock treant as well LMfao ur teamfight was way better than the enemy how can one lose to a normal skill io 2k? lmfao

As I said, I've killed him several times during early game. After the early game ended, he got BF and I couldn't kill him anymore.

Yeah, well. Our Trol wasn't really good as you can see. Tree refused to buy aghs so we can catch AM. Instead, he bought refresher with 800 mana.

Wanna join me in the 2k club?

Sure thing

holy fuck u're bad

Didn't u make a smurf a while back to prove you are 4k? And u even got 4k? what happened after, abandoned account?

I've sold that Smurf after a while. Played some games, calibrated 4.5k, sold it for 10$ 4.3k

Got to the 4.4k at some point here, on main, and had a break of a moth and came back, lost mmr in a process.

I still own 2 smurfs at this moment, one is 4.1k and other is literally 100 MMR, traded it for some 1k acc I managed to get in the past.

Ye I'm in pretty bad shape.. I see you managed to get to the 4k ,last time I've seen you you were 3k.. Congrats mate

Join the 1.2k club it's lit

I've been there on my alternative account, it's pretty friendly imo

And?

Your problem was your early/mid game. They weren't strong enough and those are the times you have to crucially cut a hero like AM apart farm-wise. The longer it takes him to get his battlefury, the longer everything else will take him to get.

Talents: I know this is supposedly subjective to preference but I seriously hate the talent tree you chose here. I go health over the 6% spell amp and 2 damage per soul I'm pretty sure beats out 15% lifesteal.

Your item build wasn't terrible but I think it was ill-suited for your matchup. Here's what I would've done:

Tangos+Wraith Start >> Bottle >> Brown Boots >> Shadow Blade >> Power Treads >> Dragon Lance >> Deso (Bloodthorn is an option here but I think your enemy composition isn't worth building around the AM only, I'd rather get fed on his 4 ez kill teammates) >> BKB >> Hurricane Pike >> Butterfly/MKB (depending on if AM had managed to get evasion somehow by this point) >> Silver Edge >> BoTs >> Moon Shard

My reasoning for the change in order is I think your shadow blade is too late to be very effective where you have it now at 12 minutes. Even vs mids that honestly control the lane well and get all the runes, I manage shadow blades a full 2 minutes before yours comes in my average game. Stomps? I've had a shadow blade in 7 minutes after the opening items, the bottle and boots. The early item means you can be on the map being a huge kill threat doing more to control the game earlier.

As you can see, my beliefs all revolve around earlier action. I see you had some SF games since where you stomped a bit better but you still get later shadow blades and your stomping stage comes later than mine does. It could just be a playstyle difference, but I prefer to run around keeping the enemy team at least partially dead so they're not farming to control the gameflow. I know there are more carry-oriented styles of sf out there but I just think personally they're not as dominant. SF has such power early, it feels a waste not to use it asap.

his problem is that he sucks at the game