Phoenix offlane is great. I also pick him as support safe lane in some situations. Midas + XP talent = fast high levels
nobody plays the birb, but with the return of sven, guess i'll have some free MMR out of noobs
thank you icefrog
(also pos 4 bird is great, in offlane we usualy need CC and shit (stun,root, not slow AS/MS) (IN 3.5K MMR, SOLOQ, 2017, EUW, maybe its different in your elo, but in mine we need that shit to win), not a bird)
I personally love this hero and think it is viable as position 2,3, or 4 however many heroes that were considered strong offlaners before are not so much now (eg. Slardar)... It is true you can do a lot with fire spirits but getting level 2 in one wave is not possible anymore and his only escape ability has a very long cooldown and he needs it in case you realise you're against a trilane... Heroes like skywrath and disruptor can do good work of him to harass and even quite easily kill him off... Besides, with heroes like troll and items like MOM in the meta, you cannot rely him to initiate first and successfully get off the egg without being chain disabled... Remember, he also has 0 base armour and suffers the same nerf from tranquils that heroes like Doom did...
10:30:50:70
+65fire spirits dps
x4
Pre-Lvl 15: 40/ 120 / 200 / 280 > 1120 damages lvl 4
Lvl 15: 300 / 380 / 460 / 540 > 2160 damages lvl 4
you still can't farm jungle with that? assuming you didn't had a shit early and probably finished your midas, you are getting rich and you can farm the entire jungle easely.
^^Urn gives 2 armour now, pretty nice mana regen too :D
Maxing Fire Spirits is better, I just realized that recently because I thought shooting laser beams was cool :P
So you can actually clear creeps quickly in level 7, slower but still ok when lvl 3 by ranged aggro(tested, very easy), and the high damage ticks makes it hard to last hit in lane but with bracers pre-Atos the damage helps. I'm trying to make this Atos thing work
I guess they don't make him offlane because getting lvl 3 can be tough for him
Phoenix is a lineup dependable pick indeed, without reliable stuns or roots it's auto loss for Phoenix
That's why with the return of Sven and his ulti buff, Sun Ray heals "more" in a way and his stun stops people from hitting the egg, they're quite good for each other, maybe we'll see some of those in pro scenes.
Undying is also on the rise with his new +15 Health Regen talent, they're both "Pls give me attention and right click me" hero and can use atos
At first you thought that +160GPM was good, but the damages are way too much better, you melt everyone, including the jungle and you get that kind of gpm back from the jungle, midas included, you can rush Shiva really quickly and even HoT
armor problems? slow the shit out of them with Fire spirits, gg easy.
(also shiva) (including shiva)
well with midas and farming jungle (pre-15) you get a lot of exp really quickly, maybe i get lvl15 at 25-30? can't remember the timings tho, but when you reach 15, you get a power spike, and even more at lvl 20 (+8% spell damages)
i usualy shit on my ennemies when i play phoenix, but sometimes i can't carry my team that much when THEY are behind :/
i should give it a try tonight
but TL;DR
phoenix pre-10 is shit,
10-15 is getting good
15 = great
20 = godlike
The damage is insane yes, but +150 GPM at lvl 15 is insane too. They're both equally good(firebirds damage significantly better) and can be picked depending on situations.
If your team lacks damage, get Fire Spirits talents, if you don't, +150 GPM is a stable choice, you get utility items faster, getting a veil could replace the damage for you.
And now you got a +20% XP gain, faster lvl 15 for the earlier GPM OR you can get fire spirits damage to impact early game fights higher, which doesn't really happen often.
I personaly hate the +20% XP gain, which is weird because i want to gain asap lvl 15/20, but +175HP makes a lot of difference early game, and you don't have any items (tranquil and wand) (i never build urn tho, i should give it a try) when you rush midas, and a squichy bird is bad early teamfights.
>but TL;DR
>phoenix pre-10 is shit
No he isn't
But he cant farm jungle efficiently and he is easy to zone out
Fire Bird
My darling Firebird, he is my fav hero. Swooping in, screeeing around.
The firebird is so good vs many trilanes, as long as it doesn't involve chain stuns and basically silencer, you can easily get XP.
Depending on what your laning against, you can almost always trade easily with spirits, you get in 3-4 attacks vs 1 from them with a spirit on them. I like to hide in the trees vs a trilane. Duo lane you can bring the pain. Bring a ward to block the small pull camp, you can steal xp from large camp so thats ok.
Once you hit six, if you can hit a fire spirit on support, and carry, dive and egg, its a kill on the support . UNless its naix and jug , those heros rape the bird. Egg placement is super key, you do egg in the middle of fight everyone turns on egg super fast. You want to egg behind the enemy team so they either run back to get you, or right into your team.
Telents, HP, fire spirit damage, magic amp and personally I like to get the two extra hits to egg.
Items, Tranquils, wand, Midas, Veil and shiva.. Lotus for silence, radience for the lulz, ghost, euls force glimmer, get whatever team needs. Also I love getting scepter to save my teammates from those necro ults, Legion duels etc etc. many commends for those
Bird farms jungle very quickly with 15 talent, he also nukes creep waves with ease.
The only down side to offlane is getting zoned by good supports and have great lane EQ. Until you hit lvl 3 you cant jungle effectively with spirits. Also when your getting xp , the carry is gettin free farm, cause if you show in lane those two supports will get ya.
KR is correct, bird is probably the most farm independent hero in the game. Huge impact with 6k networth.
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In Kiev Major, he was played more like a pos 4 or 5, same case in high MMR pubs
I actually like this hero, his skill cap is large but straightforward
Now that bracer is cheaper, I can buy bracer and tango to lane and get Atos first core item after Tranquil and Urn
Long long details
With Fire Spirits, you can interrupt safelane's carry last-hits a lot from a safe range, if lane is pulled away, Fire Spirits damage is sufficient for Phoenix to take one camp in 20 sec without taking any hits (ranged aggro)
And with 7.06 changes, lens, urn, atos are quite his items, +20% XP gain for a faster +150 GPM and levels
So an early boost of XP and gold for him is quite rewarding now