General DiscussionIs SnY Slark good now?

sny after sb I think would be ok. 18 min -22 min. or faster

so the 65%+ winrate in 7.00 means nothing?

Yes it means nothing imo

I see no reason for a 4100 gold item that doesnt give everything echo gives slark. Its cheaper, gives mana regen, the double hit helps steal more stats. Sny leaves me always feeling i cudve bought something more impactful

no

Who knows maybe it's good now that drums is insane

meh

i guess its just luck that i shitstomped every single game that i bought sny
or the fact that im spamming slark on a 2k-ish account (must be 3k unranked by now).

SnY gives you amazing manfight potential when combined with the lifesteal agility and eventually attack speed talents, something that echo sabre does not. it also scales pretty damn well whereas echo sabre falls off after like the 25th minute.

who the hell is manfighting slark

and you cant manfight slark with SE upgrade anyway, or basher. both cheaper and better items x d

if you skip echo for sny you lose a lot of burst damage and a lot of mana regen and gain moderately better chase. which matters not at all once you have basher or skadi or whatever

Well i'd buy both SE and Basher even if i go for the SnY so I don't see your point there. The mana regen does make me consider the Echo Saber more though.

I feel like you don't build a Skadi if you have SnY (whereas you pretty much have to build if after Echo to stay on people) and transition into more DPS items like butterfly or just abyssal. Or is that a moot point?

opportunity cost

you get other items slower because you spent 4000 gold on this do-nothing item

goodlord....

SnY as an item is still underwhelming tbh

my point is that if you have echo basher your chase is good enough, spending an additional 1300 gold for 6 str and some agi/damage/ms is trypically not worth it in my opinion

I edited last post ith this so you probably didnt see

but

"I feel like you don't build a Skadi if you have SnY since you have plenty of slow/chase already (whereas you pretty much have to build if after Echo to consistently stay on people) and transition into more DPS items like butterfly or just abyssal. Or is that a moot point?"

also the point that sny scales noticeably better into the lategame (even though its pretty underwhelming in the ultra late i agree) than an echo sabre.

Sny is too expensive fam. There r better alternatives for cheaper altogether.

w h o k n o w s ? ? ? ?

silver edge basher echo is enough str for me anyway. if i have to i could go straight bfly although usually abyssal is better. i very rarely buy skadi actually

https://www.dotabuff.com/players/215678138/matches?hero=slark

how do i check the high mmr slark meta matches in opendota? i want to see if people build sny or no

https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/slark/guides

none

Just because you stomped games with SnY, doesn't mean its a good item, especially considering what bracket you play in.
edit: the reason the item has a high winrate is probably because, ppl buy it when their stomping already. Basically they buy it when the game is secured and dont tryhard with their item builds. IMO

What about drums?

the guides section only covers a very small portion of the total slark games. and because sny is a barely-bought item its natural that it doesn't show up there. what i want to see is if there really is no high mmr sny builds whatsoever or maybe there are some.

^Vegis you can go click the hero face and saw their 'guild build' but imo if you want get good in a particular hero, you can read it but don't copy it and you should evolves your own style of playing it after you watch pro screen.

i guess sny is fine in lower bracket games since you don't really get punished for reaching your powerspike a little bit later.

I fell into the trap of always going skadi on slark, which i now see isnt something i shud do every game

its jsut imo a low impact item

you can win games in low skill with a low impact item because everyone is guaranteed to be low impact who cares

Ye. I think skadi is good when ur against a tanky hero who can survive a pounce, and u need to continue chasing. But then u cud get basher... Tbh the tankiness is nice and the mana too. On 2nd thought its most optimal purchase is against a lina/zeus/sky who deal huge burst and if u can survive the initial burst when they catch u off guard then u shadow dance away or kill them under shadow dance. I think slark aghs is a rlly good 5th or 6th slot item, cuz ive even seen slarks going refresher as a last item cuz against certain heroes u just cant fight without ulti, and a 30 second cd is so low. Its stats rnt even terrible, thought they r for its cost. Saving allies is icing for me.

iw as talking about sny and not skadi

skadi is good you just need abyssal more sometimes

lol no its not good because anything that messes with slark's crazy item combo timings are bad.

my kind of build on carries:
-sny if game seems winning
-midas if game seems super winning
-manta if silences
-butter if theres too many hitter
-ac if too many random physical damage
-skadi if need to survive burst
-basher if team have no lockdown
-diffusal if needed
-mkb always every game lol (idk i just like it)
-echo only if suitable
-deso+deadulus if skadi+lifesteal cant win shit

idk but imo there shouldnt be a strict item build. just build accordingly to team's needs and situations

i agree that sny isn't a big impact item. it just helps continuously fight heroes more than an echo sabre would, which perhaps isnt what slark wants to do.

perhaps its okay if you can't hit the proper item timings for whatever reason.

Honestly echo sabre isn't that cost efficient, the attack speed gives you is like glove of haste which is 500 gold 75% mana regen is meh.

echo sabre is a huge power spike

if u dont buy echo sabre ur sacrificing a LOT in terms of being able to burst people down and stay on the map and chase etc etc and its super cheap

Actually echo sabre is so good mostly cause of the mana regen. If it didnt have mana regen id totally go sny. Because slark has some mana issues which result in inefficient shrine usage if you dont have an echo sabre. (As MK said, stay on the map)

Sny used to be an ok item on slark pre echo sabre and sb upgrade days. Now it duznt make sense to make it wen u can make echo into sb into basher into silver edge. These are core items and sny cant replace them. Skadi and abyssal come much later and are irrelevant to this discussion

however you get pretty much same stats from a single sange/yasha as you get from echo and basher. arguably better stats cause of the big ms and slow (and agility being more important than strength?).

there must be a reason why this item has 65%+ winrate i suppose (logic its not often built in very high bracket)

Well echo gives guaranteed slow and mana regen
Bashes gives stun proc
SnY gives movement speed and slow proc
Guaranteed slow and stun proc > movement speed and slow proc
That 65% winrate are probably "lul I'm at the enemy fountain I'll buy some shit"

"lul I'm at the enemy fountain I'll buy some shit"

1 second guaranteed slow every 5 seconds or 30% chance slow per attack (basically 3 attacks will grant you the bonus surely) that lasts 5 seconds

so if you want power at minute 16 echo sabre is better, because you can't attack fast enough. once you can attack fast enough the sny slow is better, and sny helps you reach such attack speed way sooner than as if you went echo sabre.

like i've said, njet it's bad.

just do the calculations yourself dear god

this guy i swear.......

rofl ok its bad

not like you're losing the game over such an item choice anyway, if you dont buy it at random times

did the calculations, treads sny aquila pms silver edge gives better dps than treads basher echo sabre silver edge, however the echo basher has slightly higher burst damage the 1st second but it falls lower way faster than sny.
also, basher isnt a dps item so that is why dps is lower, i suppose.

._.

yeah you can lose a game over spending 1300 extra gold for less use, you can lose a game for finishing bkb 10 seconds later, or not clicking on a prox mine, or misplacing one fissure or chrono

echo+basher gives you double chance to bash out of invis which is very useful in a lot of ways as well

Dude wen ur getting great mana regen, cheap early hp, int, cheap dmg, instant stat steal and a guaranteed slow, why wud u try to make sny instead? I mean the build up is great, ur gng to sell the item later on anyway without much regret wheras with the sny u want to keep such a big investment for as long as possible. The echo is a perfect early game item ur gng to sell later on. Sny is like desolater - its decent for the price till mid game and to snowball, but its not worth keeping in the late game bcuz there are far better items (like AC absolutely shits on deso)

i understand that, but i doubt that if you just want some early-mid game damage and durability choosing sny over echo sabre + 1000 gold, especially if you buy it after silver edge, would be an entirely gamelosing choice. assuming you have enough lockdown in your team to win fights without extra bash or abyssal.

There's better items to buy on slark than sny

"did the calculations, treads sny aquila pms silver edge gives better dps than treads basher echo sabre silver edge, however the echo basher has slightly higher burst damage the 1st second but it falls lower way faster than sny.
also, basher isnt a dps item so that is why dps is lower, i suppose."

Wait you are comparing pms + aquila to no pms + aquila? Aquila is like 18 dmg for an agility hero of course that build is more dps. You should do straight up treads, aquila, silver edge and just swap s&y for echo sabre. That's a better comparision. Or leave aquila off altogether.

S&y is actually a really great slark item but the problem is there are better ones. It's rarely the best and slark does get kind of slot starved.

Think about mid game slark, you need shadow blade and echo sabre, then you have treads, you need those items more than s&y. Then in late game I don't think you want either, a 6 slotted slark is probably treads/travels, silver edge, skadi, butterfly, then bkb situational, mkb situational, bloodthorn possibly, abyssal/basher. A combo of those two is probably what you want.

And slark doesn't or shouldn't need the maim proc. You have leash and the echo sabre slow and you are fast. If you really want to get a yasha just for mid game then go plain yasha and sell it later. That's like medusa mentality, yasha such a good value item for farming but manta isn't that great late on medusa.

i need to somehow compensate the extra gold echo sabre and basher is 5k+ gold whereas a sange/yasha is 4100.

yasha is good, but doesnt help at all with your low health pool.