am with thread pms bf manta is strong, relatively ofc. against some cancerous carry like slark or tb, yep its feel weak, but against others i can say its okay and strong enuf
i dont think there were ever times when am used to go fight on min 10 without splitfarming. He is still a greedy hero like when he was very popular (because of the influence of ti5)
true am can easy get rekt with sven sabre armlet at like 20 min ez after manta abysal he becomes fearsome
My team once had two junglers and I got flamed for getting a 20 minute battlefury. Needless to say, we lost because I couldn't really farm anywhere anymore, but it was apparently my fault. Unless you get like a 12-15 min tops treads battlefury, AM is going to be underwhelming as fuck because you have nothing going for you as a carry that's that behind.
Of course lategame AM is annoying because he can split push but compared to harder carries he just falls of so hard. The only thing he has going for him lategame is pretty much his mobility, with a maxed out build you can't stand toe to toe to anybody who doesn't have a gigantic mana pool (so you might be good against naga in some scenarios, or heroes who can never catch you, but you'll still have trouble killing them too).
naga is actually a nightmare for AM i believe, merely because unless you save manta she can stop you for 5s + you cannot clear 3000 hp illus
now in real games nagas ALWAYS suck balls, and its 2 ez to outfarm them and end the game with bfury manta abyssal aegis before she has 6 items
am is not manfight hero early on... his pros is at pushing and farming , and his mobility enable him to do alot of thgs that other carry not able to do..
am is not weak but you .... https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2745552273
Late game AM has to transition into a rat/split pusher and let team deal with defense. Like this guy almost pulled it off. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2750331039 If I hadn't been on TB and able to solo base myself we wouldn't have done it.
I get what you are saying though, check out my vs AM stats, 3 months, 90% win rate rofl.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/70671819/matches?date=3month&opponent_hero=anti-mage
Even last 12 is 77% vs AM: https://www.dotabuff.com/players/70671819/matches?date=year&opponent_hero=anti-mage
He's so easy to counter and out farm cus most AMs suck so badly.
Am is a terrible hero and I discourage all from ever playing the cancer. You can look at my am game yesterday for example (all random). I had to play Farmville for 25mins while my team got crushed then i became super effective after I got manta. Quite embarrassing looking at 8.8k hero damage done by me since once I started joining team fights we wiped them.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2812691931
why do you think you know whether a hero is terrible or not if you're 2.5k and base your opinion solely on your own games (you even used a 2.5k game in which you farmed like shit as an example).
am is pretty good in/against a specific lineup and if you get your timings right and they don't have too much in terms of a counterpick (imagine you have core lifestealer and slark against AM, you will never kill that AM unless you get double abyssal on him).
AM is strong min 1-10
AM is weak min 10-15
AM is strong 15-25
AM is ultra strong 25-35
AM starts to drop off after that.
^isn't he also pretty strong lategame due to his mobility, if the enemy doesn't have sufficient catch? Of course, he may not be able to outfight harder carries, but from my experience, by the time AM has fallen off as a carry he becomes a cancerous, really slippery split pusher
that being said, an argument could be made that he also becomes weaker as enemy carries who are by nature harder also itemize to take him down easily (like sven going shadowblade to easmlessly initiate on him and stuff like that).
ANTI-MAGE especializes in killing mages, when he fight a hero with low mana pool his dmg falls quickly.. also when the first major competitions starts, only 2 carrys worth of picking.. him and gyro.. now many cores are viable.. making him feels weaker than before.. but he is not.. he is stronger now.. greater mana burn, greater mana void radius.. better vladmir offers.. also the vanguard rework (which affects negatively heroes like juggernaut and ursa) synergies well with his playstyle (hight armor, hight hp pool, high magic resistance, low cooldown blink, illussions)..
the thing here is.. am is for killing mages, tb is for killing anything, slark is for long fights, sven is broken (lol).. put AM in a good contex and he will be formidable as he always been
Tbh if am gets just a bit of space he can start rekking. And by reking I mean farming. I've only won 1 game fully turtling, and it was as am. They didn't have any catch without disruptor, so even with 18 min bf I cud slip in and out of base to keep farming jungle. I think one of my biggest mistakes was getting heart over butterfly, but it was pretty FeelsGoodMan
When i play am i will go vanguard and thread 1st. cos make u git tanky and have more survivability . Then u can have bf in minute 18 . Then build yasha to manta after tht basher to absyyal . Am is weak hero in early lvl 8 jug with difussal can kill him in 4 hit and i suggest u to max his blink and skills 3 if u got harash to much (if u got harash with magic damage)
His damage is not as good as others in late game. Just good for blowing up one big mana pool hero.
Timing dependent hero. At 20 min w bf and manta, most of the Meta carries right now are able to do a lot more damage. Take sven drow and Luna. With their farming ability, am can't actually out farm them that well without s really good start. At 20 min these carries already have most of their core items and At 20 min they can fight a lot more with their strong ultimates.
What can am do? And without lockdown am can't really blow anyone up yet.
Pretty sure AM is one of the best counters to Naga due to the way the timings work out. Also in pubs if you intelligently apply map pressure with a good split-push hero like AM most teams will fall apart. I regularly manage to carry 4ks with this hero so if you have teammates near your skill level I don't see why you can't make it work.
With bf and manta you just need to do more split push use manta to get tower. Get abbysal blade keep split push if there is one who tp in you can kill them with 3 item. Then you won
With AM you either shit on your enemy so hard that he looks OP or you become an irrelevant space eating shithead who couldn't do anything early game, mid game, and late game
He's momentum based
I feel like am is just a timing based hero with the latest peak of all timing based heroes. As long as you keep up and utilize your strong point, you can be op. But if the enemy survives your strong point and has more traditional carries that can carry because of how well they use items rather then how fast they farm them, you will fall off pretty fast.
"A lv 1 AM with mana break do not need item to fight and kill a lv 1 Luna "
I assume you have never heard of this thing called "movement speed". Holy shit you're retarded XD Luna's totally gonna stand in place while AM mana breaks her poor mana pool and then he is suddenly miraculously gonna get level 2, and dive her under tower, and during all this, luna didn't attack 600 hp AM with poor armor at all, nor did she ever stun him, no, she just stood in creeps. In fact, creeps also attacked her. And she was afk while diving his tower at level 1.
Luna shits on AM what are you talking about
She will shit on his early game with her aura, farm as fast as him, moves like a ferrari to kite his ass easily, and destroy all of his tower with her cancer friends in 20 minutes while he still struggles to get his manta, and AM loses most of his health standing next to his barrack trying to find an opening in the lategame
Not to mention her vision that helps her notice any hero who tries to raep her white ass
comparing luna and antimage is kinda way too skewed in luna's favor because she has 54% winrate while he has 47% and the difference is smaller at 53% vs 48% in 5k+ but luna is still somewhat underrated, just like sven was (though sven is still the tier 1 "ancient stack" carry hands down).
It's kinda weird to see AM getting shat on by a hero who only has one ministun magic damage nuke and bunch of magical lasers
If it comes down to 1on1, a satanic bkb luna just won't die to blink abyssal antimage unless he sells battlefury to get a rapier, and doesn't have heart but mkb, and also has a butterfly, because a six slotted luna has waaaaay more hp than a six slotted antimage while dealing way more damage
and worse yet, luna isn't a 1v1 hero, she'll blow away am's teamfight potential by a landslide, the only redeeming factor antimage could have in that fight is if he mana voids a really high mana pool target dealing million damage to everyone, but that's unreliable as fuck
it should also be nice to mention that luna doesn't even have to kill am, she just has to make sure he cannot contribute to the fight, and I've seen unfortunate AMs blinking into 100 glaives just to lose half their HP
Am is very strong. Just get vanguards first instead of rushing bf and u can fight very early. Bf after that is usually around 16 mim mark with pt + vang.
Also jumping on 6slotted luna in the first place is not your goal.
i hope you know that the average win rate of a hero means almost nothing right?
He's okay, not great. Not one to talk him up tho, I have horrible winrate with him. For some reason I just don't really get the feel of him, same goes to Slark lately no Kappa.
average winrates only represent how well the hero does looking at the entire dota population.
a good AM player will win games just as well as a good Luna player. Its just a bit harder to be good with AM.
I always Queue on multiple gamemodes: All Pick, Single Draft, Random Draft, CM and Captains Draft. Thats why i get CM games, duh.
Yes Vanguards always if u know enemy will try to dominate u since start. GG is naked bf against line up, that most likely will try to raape u asap eg. Spirit Breaker + Storm.
Good point from a 49% win rate carry player, that have problems to hold his mmr.
Am needs to snowball, the later the game goes he begins to fall off against some other carries, however, he farms extremely quickly which allows him to beat other carries as soon as you get treads, bf, manta and abyssal you can pretty much at that point do anything you want as long as you are getting them at a good rate
But people don't play am correctly, am does not initiate, he split pushes, gets pick offs and pushes with team from that point on, an am player will
Wait till his enemy's waste their spells on his team then go in and fuck everybody up. Luna is a good hero but it all depends on the players who will win
Yes
But to compare how heroes interact with each other we can pretend both heroes are played with players on the same level
A shit luna will stomp on a shit AM
A good luna will have an advantage over a good AM
Ofc a great AM will shit on a shit luna and vice versa, but we were talking about the heroes themselves
Let me see if I can decode this:
AM is strong min 1-10 - early when a level 1 mana break is effective, nice bat
AM is weak min 10-15 - still farming up bury or just got it, doesn't have stats to hang with everyone else and is sacrificing little items for bfury
AM is strong 15-25 - got that bfury, got that yasha, manta is done around 18-20 mins hopefully and then he's really strong, no one has the item disables to catch you yet like orchids and abyssals
AM is ultra strong 25-35 - now he's 4,5,6 slotted, enemies have 3 or 4 items max
AM starts to drop off after that. - ooops all other carries catching up and those abyssals hold you in place to get wreckt
sound about right?
Am is balanced.it is really depend on draft and match ups. Some of them are auto win some are auto lose.
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Am used to be really strong just with bf, manta. Now he needs at least 3 items to fight current popular carries like Luna, jugg.