General DiscussionAncient cliffing

if it works in low brackets, go for it lul
in higher ones 4v5 gets punished, that mirana or furion or whatever on that cliff gets killed

@ OP:

Considering that your recent matches are given a big fat "F" from Dotabuff, you could try it when the enemy team has a solo support and a jungler, as I strongly doubt there will be any wards on the map for the first 5-10 minutes of the game. At least, none that would hurt you in any way.

However, I am very much apposed to jungling in general.

^im pretty sure the "big fat F" for data quality has nothing to do with individual skill of any player

@ Dog: I beg to differ.

No the F has nothing to do with skills.
Take both of you for instance.
You play vhs he play ns/ hs still has A+ and B while you are at B

its bad on mirana and early game its bad on furion too.

mid game or later, its actuall not so bad for furion if you make sure they dont have vision of you, you have a blink dagger to run, and use treants to simultaneously farm other parts of the map, and are willing to show up to fights if needed. it gives you pretty decent cs/min if you micro treants,

Only do it if u want to tilt your teammates

The only jungler that should be accepted should be venom :D
4 min lvl 6(ofcourse if courier is free)
Ring boots raindrop tp. Kill kill kill

4v5 with 4 sources of gold/XP
in contrast to
5v5 with 3 sources of gold/XP

It all comes down to how well the enemy team can punish you for the weak laning phase and that one guy who's farming jungle/ancient/roshan/whatever. If the enemy team can't do shit to dominate the lanes, or don't use the gold better than your heroes do later in the game, it *can* be a viable strategy. However if they come looking for kills and got them, you lose momentum slowly and lose control, especially if your heroes are greedy and can't comeback well.

I'm no VHS player but IMO, it's pointless to do that especially with a hero like Mirana. Mirana's skillset is too good for afk farming (she doesnt even scale as good as other cores in terms of physical damage, duh). You have good nukes, an escape skill, and not to mention that sacred arrow is one of the scariest skills in the laning stage especially for a roaming Mirana.

16 min skadi dusa farm anceints dire ez

do veno's wards reach the ancients from the cliff? that's pretty cancerous if so :D

Ridiculous stupidity which is inefficient and only works at low mmr

Well as to dying.. its atleast around 10 minutes at my skill level(2k mmr) till people figure out that I am farming there.
The big fat F is probably there because I dont have dotabuff plus? I mean the new stats arent given for any of my games.
Thanks all.. Ill not jungle cliff.. I actually didnt even know of it till in a ranked game my teammates told me to tp to radiant cliff and farm ancients lol.

Never cliff jungle, and there does not ALWAYS have to be a jungler. People who auto pick jungle when other lanes are taken are greedy players which usually allows the enemy safelane to free farm and your offlaner to become useless and behind in levels.
Unless somebody wants to solo off then think about jungling but don't ruin the game

All depends on your game scenario but a radiant cliff mirana can jungle a scepter in less than 10:00 if you arrow across the river.

Thats a nice thing to have at minute 15:00 or so when skirmishes start breaking out and you have a lv3 or 4 Q and ags passive Q.

Maybe 1/10 of mirana games i see it as viable and most often i do it when my own team is telling me to get out of their lane and to go roam/jungle

I'm pretty sure cliff jungling is the worst form of jungling. It was only halfway decent back when necro could do it cus he could kill the ancients every hundred seconds or so from aura. NP will get better farm in jungle, medusa, drow, luna, alch, they all can't kill ancients quick enough.

Back in 2013 I used to cliff jungle furion and still be very active all around the map. People hated it when they first saw it because they were too used to trash afk furions cliffing for the first 10 minutes and being useless afterwards.

I think I used to have treads midas orchid ~minute 16 on average and constantly help teammates put pressure on the map.

like this game people were crying that I was cliff jungling from the getgo
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/97419980

If you're going to jungle, actually jungle. The only reason why you would jungle the ancients is if all your lanes require they be solo, you have a jungler, and the lanes have no gank potential for a roamer. Once all of those happen, you can go ancient jungle.

Thanks guys. :) Hugely appreciated

i dont like people in my offlane. just stay out of my offlane.

Cliff jungling isn't even fast. It takes so fucking long.

It's just as fast if not even faster because you don't need basilius and you have a tp lvl 1 to help your team with, maybe even sprout lvl 2 while being at full mana.

So Ebin how do you understand when cliff jungling will be viable?

Cliff jungling is viable when you can get away with it while still dealing a lot of impact. In pro games you can't. In pubs you can get away with a lot of different greedy stuff.

So basically it is okay to ancient cliff as long as opponent doesnt know I am there and I keep an eye on the map looking for ganks? Thanks so much. :)

If you're the kind of fella that picked cliff jungle when your team has a spectre, lion, medusa + 1 I suggest a bullet to the head is the best way.

Okay I am a noob/never done that.. could you explain why that would be a mistake?
If medusa went mid, Spectre and lion in one lane, one good solo offlaner and furion jungling would be bad? No one knows how to trilane at my mmr if that is what you meant.

Well in that case you can use Cm pos1 and probably decide the game in 10 minutes anyway, so you can do whatever you like.

If you cliff jungle on nature's prophet you're a cuck

-AdmiralBulldog