General DiscussionStuck at 700 mmr and dont know how to improve

http://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2016-04-30-helpful-tips-for-climbing-mmr-

Kitrak's mmr guide is helpful

Work harder. CS is still low when playing carry.

Tbh continue what u r doing, and try to get good at a certain hero/role (basically spam). Then focus on that hero/role for ranked.

Work on your mechanics, practice last hitting in bot games, aim for 70 last hits at 10 min
Find a hero that you really enjoy playing and are good with, spam that hero to gain mmr and you will improve too

well... I try to have a hero for every lane as well as a carry, core and support for every lane too, that's why i try keep a variate.
I'm mostly supporting though cause A) I relay enjoy supporting my team. And B) noone else supports generally.

And yes. Last hitting and farming patterns is something I've been learning and training hard on carries lately. I know i'm not there yet.

Thins is.

I'm just AFRAID that I'll learn things wrongly

Like with Weaver, that I expect them to not see me sucuchi cause No One gets wards. Until I run into one of the few people who Does and get Wrecked in the laning phase.

So I'm scared of falling lower in mmr...because I'll be learning to play the game badly, cause my opponents are bad.

So when I finally Do get better mmr, I'll either fall right back and never improve ever, or I'll have to relearn everything again from scratch basicly

hmm really makes you think

at your current mmr you can probably pick the same hero every game just to practice without worrying about being countered.

pick a strong simple to execute hero that does a lot by itself, NOT necessarily farm all game and carry, but something like underlord who is straightforward and a beast.

watch a high skilled player play this same hero and what his build is and how he uses abilities.

apply what you see to your games and fill in the rest with the experience youll gain. play some unranked games first

@hmm really makes you think
Yeah :/ That's why I've finally come to the dotabuff forum to ask for help >< Been thinking so much about it and turning up with no solution except "keep at it and just assume you'll get better eveutally" ><

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@ 1nd Worst Dota Player Ever
That's exactly what I DONT want to do.
I dont realy care abut mmr in itsself. What I care is to get good at the game, not get a high mmr.
So I'm not looking for 'how to increase my mmr in generaly'
But
How do I improve myself to get a better mmr In Order to learn better and face better opponents, to then get even better and face even better opponents, to then get even better and face even better better opponents, and so on.
and maybe I'm wrong, but higher mmr means I have better players in the opponent team (and my team of corse) so they will be offering a more detailed challange and face me with less mistake i can exploit, forcing me to learn and addapt and train new, better, more finely detailed techniques, mindsets, ways of thinking and reflexes.

It's like fencing (which I do irl) At teh beginning everyone uses their arms for their rapiers and fleurettes. Later when facing better opponents one learns to bring the blade to motion only with yoru wrist. And finally you'll end up hardly moving your arm or wrist at all and move the very tip only a few inchest up down left and right with your fingers only.

That's more or less what I imagine how I would learn and improve in dota over time by climbing the mmr ladder.

The number Pfff. I couldnt care less.
It's the quality of my opponents (and team as it's a team game) that interests me in mmr.
So i can train and improve to become a similarly quality player

I would just keep playing.

But seeing I was put in 10xx (just slightly above 1000) mmr when I was first calculated two years ago. And over time i slowly decended into 700mmr (and lately often two losses bellow that) made me worry
That I might never be able to face those quality opponents that would allow me to become a better player.
Cause...afterall... in 2 years i should have gotten better in at the game, even if only minorly, no?

tbh, anything below 5k is a clown fiesta.

@Tasaina

I know :/
But that doesn't really change anything about it all

idk what to say man, if you play with better people you will learn better habits. its not just about increasing your number, its about playing with/against better people because thats how you'll learn to play better.

@kaitax, read what HotSalza linked if hadn't already.
If your goal is to gain mmr, improve . spam 1 role (off,carry,mid,support) and use 2-3 heroes for that role.

If I were you, I'd practice in ranked, because at your mmr is likely not going to be full of counterpicks and full of tryharding players or anything like that. I'd honestly watch Purgegamers (if you haven't seen any of his videos, look him up) as he plays heroes who specifically interest you (think Ember Spirit looks cool? Watch Purge play that shit!) The reason I'd suggest Purge over watching professionals play is because he's really good at educating players, and he basically takes his channel to help people learn.

@1nd Worst Dota Player Ever
So you mean I should spam a hero to get to higher mmr, train there, and when I fall in mmr i should spam that hero again to gain mmr, so I'm on the mmr to train on ?
Sounds cheap but might actually be the best working idea I've heard.
thanks^^ I'll try that

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@Tasaina
Read it already, yes.
And the mmr I dont realy care about, just the quality of my opponents. Cause if they are good I will get better too by learning from my mistakes.
Instead of right now where I honestly most of the time have no idea if i even did anything wrong, even if I rewatch and study what I did.

@ LCA | Skye
Hmm. Alright. I'll look into Purge. Thanks for that tip.
And well... yes. People are trying hard, trust me. Most of them just suck.
I propably do to.
But i want to get better
Not to say I am better, but because that's the whole reason I play dota. To get good at it. I enjoy progressing and raising my skills.
And counterpics do matter :/
Ever seen a 4-5 carry team loose to a team with one support cause they had heros like SF, Strom, Slark and the like, while the one support on the enemy team was a lion, Ss or build orchid?
Well... sure, not only.
But you know what I mean?
Basicly, tiny advantages become huge seeing how bad most people are at adapting to situations (can't realy say I'm much better cause 60% of the time I build the same 3 core items and often times before rushing a more important item for the situation I'm in (like an orchid against a storm) because I dont know what else to buy, but anyway)
Where in pro games the win comes from using that advantage correctly, in such low mmr, that advatage basicly allows people to stumble into wins automatically not cause tehy know how to use it, but because the enemy doesnt know how to counter it (excample. Omni is super strong often times on low mmr. On higher ones... not so much. Why? cause there people buy diffusal to counter him. Low mmr? The only ones getting diffusal are PL and Riki, and they propably dont know it purdges Omni's ult)

You said you enjoy supporting? Great, stick to the role you enjoy and get better at it. Read/watch guides, watch pro player replays, know which hero counters who, and who goes well with who, use that knowledge to analyze what the best pick is in situations (like picking Apparition against slark/huskar or Lion against Puck or Storm), analyze what vision you need (do we plan to defend? Attack?) and know where to put your wards. Be efficient with sentries and cover as many ward spots as possible. Stack and pull or pull connect if you know how to. Know when you should gank mid or not. Always bring a tp and look at other lanes. Tend to your team's needs. Be flexible with your item choices and look for what you really need.

there's a lot of stuff for you to work on

LIKE A LOT

start with picking 1-3 heroes and ONLY playing them. if you want the fastest possible improvement, pick 3 heroes and spam ONLY THEM

wtf did i just read

I don't think supports do anything at 700 MMR so pick a core, farm and try to win the game

Untrue. The reason omni has a god winrate is because supports matter so much. But only if played right. A well tomed hex or earth spike, a good glimmer cape or mek, or a good disruption can often times win engagements. a good support can make a lot of space and set up a carry for success, especially in ns where everyone is a dumbfuck, if u git gud and can basically be the mom of ur team supporting everyone with good rotations/pulls/etc, u can in effect win the game.

My favorite game was one where i was supporting as cm, and we were losing badly cuz every hero on their team cud cancel my ulti. But then i jebaited their stuns and got a rampage with glimmer and turned the tide.

I have a completely different mentality regarding that, you can increase the chances of winning by playing a support in low MMR, but you won't win the games alone, you still have to depend on your juggernaut not making mom aghs into butterfly against tinker, and shit like that.

If you're any better than the opponents, in that bracket, playing support will increase your winrate to about 60% and you'll climb, but also if you're better and you pick a core who can hit buildings and farm well, you can get about 80%+ winrate, and you do not even have to be MUCH better than the opponents, just enough that you can outplay them/outfarm them/outpush them. It doesn't matter if you end the game with an exposed throne, if theirs is down.

I played on someone's 800 MMR account and lost because no matter what I did as a support, the 4 carries would NEVER push, eventually the enemy spectre built spectre items and he was immortal even if all he did was mash keys on the keyboard randomly.

For straight climbing i agree. But in the case of omni as long as ur retard carry never dies, he will eventually hit everything to death.

if you are going to play support why not roam at that mmr. im guessing youll be able to walk up on mid and kill him over and over as ogre or w/e.

Picks doesn't matter below 4k
What matters is your skill so just pick some carries and outclass them
Spam some heroes so you'll ndotice your mistakes faster
Of course, you need to become a good carry first to outclass them
How?
Know how to last hit/farm
Know where to last hit/farm
Know when to last hit/farm
Do the challenges that Cookie gave on empty lobby
75 LH 10 min on lane
600 LH 30 min
Be efficient (tread switching and shit)
Expand your knowledge (purging, stun staggering, hero skills, creep aggro etc)
Know what items to build (how many times did you build diffusal against omni?)
TLDR = Use common sense and logic when you play, be efficient, spam heroes, notice your mistakes, fix them

"if you are going to play support why not roam at that mmr. im guessing youll be able to walk up on mid and kill him over and over as ogre or w/e."

Because this does not pay off, still. You kill mid and he's gimped for the duration of the game, great shit. But they have 3-4 more carries. You are depending on RNG too much, still. It is not like a 3k+ match where gimping the mid player means you can win way easier, in 1k and bellow it does little to nothing because of comeback mechanics, you can't always save everyone, and suddenly the most farmed player on your team will walk into 2 guys who are under-farmed and still die because he went for shit items. And things like that. I know this because I started at 1.1k MMR, so picking a support at that stage is pretty much suicide if you want 60%+ winrate to climb fast.

Yes it's possible to climb as a support
But obviously it takes more skill, energy, and mentality to deal with your sven going MoM and SB after 30 minutes against 3 gems
Just pick whatever role you like and you'll get out of the shithole when you're good enough

Nobody is really saying it is impossible, just that it pretty much takes more work for less efficiency at that MMR.

I mean, just learning to farm up, and keep track of where everyone is one the map will get you to at least 2.5k up from 700.

you're based EU west, add me and I'll help you if you want

cool story bruh

U die too much. Like waaaay too much. Dying 10 times on slark or many times on weaver is very bad. These are the easiest heros to escape from gank with.

U have to work on everything starting from your positioning in teamfights.

U can also add me. I have a hang over today and I can play some normall skill games with u.

Thanks guys for all the advice so far.
Most of what I read is that you guys want me to focuse a core/carry hero or three and get good at them first before I do anything else.
And most of what you also point out is my farming efficency. I'd guess if I get that on line denying and pulling as well as supporting my carrys to give them the farming space they need, will be something I learn alongside

So I will focuse on that for the next few weeks and see where it brings me^^
Thank you all for your advice^^

And sure ☭ and Lex. I'll gladly add you.
I'm always glad for someone to give constructive criticism.

just... eh.... I feel stupid to ask but...
how do I add people from dotabuff on steam? ^^;

I will add u no worries

i actually suggest playing mid most of the time since mid is one of the more mechanically inclined roles and i think thats what you massively lack (since you said you do your homework, and obviously you need at least the minimum skill required to execute what you've learn PROPERLY AND TIMELY)

also mid teaches you EVERYTHING, from basic laning trick of aggro, cs, and creep equilbirium, to teamfight decision making WHILE being able to farm up your items. i dont think it's an easy role but that's the fun in it.

also no one can mess you up, since there are no rotations on either side of the team, it's just you and your opponent, so you cant really blame anyone but yourself for losing the lane, making you focus on your mistakes more and thus reflecting on them and correcting them

@Alice
Good point. Thing is everyone wants mid for themselves.
And I'm rather sick of arguing who gets which lane.

But yeah. mid is the best spot for this, and I do rake OD and Weaver mid a lot, especially with OD I tend to win mid too (or at least i think I do seeing I tend to end up better farmed and less dead then the enemy mid)
I just dont get mid often cause I dont realy want to fight over it :/

And yeah :/ the skill to execute everything in the right way is what I try to train and learn. The strategie and technique behind it all I'm rather familiar with by now ^^; I'm no master of corse though.

@Lex, thanks for the invite :D

people fight over mid in your mmr? i had thought that no one wants mid in that mmr because everyone is aware that they suck, i queue in SEA but i dont see much mid fighting anymore

just try to tell them that you're going mid as soon as you can talk to them, it makes them aware that someone is taking mid. even i would get frustrated if someone decides to go mid at the last minute. i myself have played solo offlane 4 times in the last 5 timbersaw games ive played (didnt solo lane last game because of drow so i laned with pudge) i just tell them "lemme solo top/bot i'll play timber" and they'd pick a jungler instantly rofl

1)Do not pick supports
2)Watch replays of pros. Copy what they exactly do (ganks on the same minute, their actions and etc). Then ull get better at game-understanding
3) spam 3-4 heroes so to consolidate what u achieved. Big mistake of low-players is they pick every hero and dont know how to play on it, w/o getting skill.
4) dont feed (thats the bigges point actually). If u die, then it means that only u to blame
5) Try to find ur own playstyle (farming, fighting, etc) and try to become better with it
6) DO NEVER LISTEN TO UR TEAMMATES. ALWAYS MUTE THEM (if only u r not trying to rofl at them). They cant say good useful thing unless they r 5k

These tips may help u a lot

being able to execute it properly is one thing, knowing when it's the best situation to use it is another. as i said you need to use your knowledge properly and timely ie youre a weaver and you KNOW that linken is an item and you PROPERLY farmed it at a decent timing, but its all useless if youre against a heavy aoe lineup (which is the timely part)

i myself am struggling a lot with this, aside from the shitty example i gave above, there are a lot of stuff that i know and how to do but i always find myself still failing because the situation wasnt appropriate for the stuff im doing (or vice versa)

also another thing that i learned from cookie:

try to know the GENERAL MISTAKES that you, your teammates, and your opponents make and do your best to capitalize on them.

by doing this, you lower the chances of you doing the same mistakes while at the same time (ab)using everyone else's mistakes to your advantage.

you can do this by letting someone of higher mmr take a look at your games, or you can do it yourself (which i dont recommend)

There are some horrible people out there giving you pretty bad advice either on purpose, because they low-key want to troll you, or because they feel insecure about themselves. Now, I'm not going to name anyone, but they are in this thread and they should feel ashamed of themselves. Though, I could be wrong and maybe they actually believe what they said is right for you, or in general.

That aside, if you really want some actual advice, tips, overall want to discuss and share some thoughts on the game, please let me know.
If you're willing to use things like Skype we can talk things over that way, or we can do an analysis on one of your replays, I don't mind.

Just keep in mind: I am no "pro" player and don't claim to be, but I think I have a good grasp of the game and its mechanics and if you want that as well, add me.

why not just call out to those people who gave bad advice. the way you worded kinda feels like it applies to everyone, you know, one rotten apple spoils the bunch thing

idk if youre just being passive-aggressive about this or you just dont want to step on someone's toes but if it's the latter then idk whats the point, we're in the internet where we're all anonymous so it kinda doesnt matter and also it opens up a discussion, which is what forums are all about anyway

Okay, I still won't give names, but suggesting to someone who is 700 MMR that he should NOT PICK SUPPORTS or just "play mid" seems like really really lazy advice. Granted, I didn't go into any detail myself / didn't provide solid advice, but it's because he has so many areas to improve that I : 1) Don't want to somehow make him feel bad by pointing everything out and 2) Don't have the time to type everything, which is why I suggested we Skype.

TL;DR : I did not intend any malice.

@Alice
Yeah. I know what you mean. Especially with the weaver excample. I tend to get a BKB when I face more AoE's instead of linkens, or skip linkens even if there are no disables or huge AoE's (which is rare, but ...5 carry teams... )

I often have those moments where I react and do something, only to realize what I did wrong and wondering why the heck i didnt think of that before (like with WW ulting the other support while dazzle stands aside to shallow grave them. I should have ulted Dazzle instead) Things like that.

Most of the time it's though becasue I feel helpless. I see that I cannot do enough impact in teamfights, either cause I have to compensate for my team's lack of skill, or because the enemy is just better.
And that's when I realy dont know anymore what to do :c

Yeah... seeing what mistakes the enemy makes I find hard :c At least consciously.
I tend to just see opportunities but dont realy see the mistake the enemy made (except obvious ones of corse)
Thing is though, most hero's I play are normally not in the enemy lineup. WW, Ss, OD, Luna, Jakiro, Veno, all those heros I rarely see played against me. Weaver sometimes but still rarely. So I can't realy learn from other's mistakes unless I go look up videos XD

@Trevor
I guessed that some are going to pop up, but honestly I dont mind. Every thought is something that might help me.
And eh, I've read so many 'how to gain mmr' guides that I know the general advice. That's why I made my own thread.
I'll gladly analyze some replays with you, and you dont need to be pro XD As long as you end up helping I dont care how good you are.

Alrhough im 1k, i climbing now and i realise something, the most important thing to win dota is teamwork. Less talk, talk only when need. Learn all the hero ability, item is there for u to build and counter them, always watch mini map to see any hero. Hard carry has one job farm,and gank when needed. Support has one job early game u the most op hero,so help your carry to strive late game.so support with disable try ganking early game. And if u know most hro ability u can win. Because u know their weakness. Like wk no mana no resurecction, or knowong ursa will kill roshan early game, know when u have ulti, try to find opprtunity to kill and many more. U just need to get good and use brain.

Learn winning lane,by learning agro creep skill. Man there so many to learn.