General DiscussionMore Invoker questions

1. cus some invokers are bad and waste gold on items they dont use.
2. euls is bad now compared to aghs
3. maybe really late as bloodthorn, but not really QE is more of a combo/caster type invoker not a right clicker.
4. mana regen, armor damage, stats etc.
QW:
1. not 100% always
2. no
3. not on early game, later on when you're no more just QW but you are a full out invoker with aghs
4. yes they are

Invoker's build is always situational. Treads are great as a substitute for drums when you are losing badly and need the most value out of your items. I often skip blink dagger nowadays and go straight from travels to aghs. Orchid is rarely good on qe. Aquila is great for stat efficiency.
Phase boots are good early but if you aren't contested mid and can play really greedy(which is rare as we) then you can skip and go for drums Aquila. I like force staff but don't like hurricane pike because it's not worth it. Octarine is terrific for team fight survivibility after you've built the items you need. Raindrops are ridiculously good.

I always go aquila midas drum scepter bot dagger bkb and after that is situational . Eul is really bad , trust me

the ideal build for me is
starting: null talisman + faerie fire + shared tangoes
core: brown boots->midas->aghanims
after this travels/blink/shivas/AC/Skadi/necrobook/BKB/hurricane pike/Octarine Core watever suits the game

Dont make euls, make hurricane/blink.

QE Answers. (Warning, 2k scrublord)

I think Eul's is great if 2 things are true: (and if you can combo really well with your SS, CM, and DB)
1. Other team's carry doesn't have a blink or leap ability.
2. Other team has 1 or 2 very... very squishy heroes.

If #2 is true, feel free to get it anyways. But if neither are true, Eul's will be EXTREMELY underwhelming, being only good for dispelling a silence or dust (if you are going invis to escape).

-I NEVER do QW. I can't play it well, and that might be why, but QE gives you the flash farm you need early game to get your items, and allows for more damage output (at lvl 11, Voker can usually kill anyone).

-RoA is mostly to complete the Wraith Band you are getting for some cheap extra stats. You get WB for your Forge Spirits. That extra armor is pretty nice. I usually don't get it, but then again, I am 2000 lower MMR than you, and 5000 lower MMR than the pros.

Miracle and Abed go drums euls in their pubs. Euls is still really useful as meteor as blast will ko anything full game

Never get treads that is retarded.

You already get attack speed by with ur WEX......

^treads on qe when u have 1 wex 20 minutes into the game and want to farm ancients

ive definitely seen people better than me buy them

the main idea behind euls for me is it doubles as split-pushing threat via oneshotting non-cores and escape though euls-blink

drums is definitely an item I never considered. idk if I would ever go aquila when I can buy raindrops and be 700 gold closer to my next item, although basi obviously has potent pushing benefits if people leave ur lane

Na, the attack speed you get is from your RoA (if you get one), your Drums of Endurance, and your hand of Midas. Your farming speed doesn't come from attack speed early game, it comes from Forge Spirits.
If you want more attack speed, start spamming Alacrity.

Hell, in the Normal Skill bracket... if lanes aren't totally fucked by team, I can run around at 20 minutes and one shot cores with Eul's combo.

http://www.jist.tv/watch?v=uuEkbh09Ghhdz0Xh

5220 gold: drums roa midas brown boots

5100 gold: basi midas treads point booster

alacrity is great for killing ancients because it gives great damage! QE invoker doesn't have max wex until far later, so unless you are talking about 10 attack speed idk what you mean

both forge spirits combined will do 62 damage every .75 seconds with a baseline of 5 exort. invoker will do about 200 damage in the same amount of time with treads and alacrity on

this is a shitty argument because you don't want to go treads always. but saying that roa and drums are good items to farm ancients with is ridiculous

^The Faq?
- You get Alacrity at about lvl 10 or 11. You don't even need to farm ancients until then cuz you don't have double Forge Spirits. AND, you are farming the hard/medium camps with the spirits, farming your lane, and keeping SS in que for kills.

- The MAIN reason you don't get Treads is because you will get BoT after your Eul's/Drums/RoA. Why do you get BoT? To constantly split push and farm. The point of Invoker isn't JUST to be a walking nuke. Its to provide a global presence and pressure. He farms items quicker than most heroes, and needs to do stuff with that advantage.

-Your 5220 gold vs 5100 gold argument...
I think that getting an Agh's at 10-17 minutes (as apposed to other team fighting items / split pushing items) is TERRIBLE. Why? Because up until you are level 15+ all of your damage and utility will come from literally 3-6 spells: Sun Strike, Deafening Blast, Chaos Meteor, Ice Wall, Cold Snap, Forge Spirits.
If you are split pushing you need the FS, and maybe a qued spell for escape / gank.
If you are constantly team fighting and pushing as a team, you just need the CM + SS + DB

After 22 minutes, you will most likely be ready for the stat boost, and the 2 second spells (at this point, Wex will do enough damage to use regularly)

I will give you the + that building towards an early Agh's give you much needed HP early game, but I stand by my arguement. With a Euls, your survivability is already pretty good. Especially if you think fast enough to get a good ice wall or ghost walk in there.

With 4100 gold, I have Boots, Null Talisman, Basilius, Euls, Hand of Midas, TP. Though I swear to start building RoA / Drums.
With this build you are a killing / kiting machine. Besides, my everage Eul's timing is 12-17 minutes, so BoT next, then Aghs.

u literally just repeated what I said about not getting treads every game

How? I just gave you reasons why I wouldn't go treads, and a few alternative items that are better investments.

Btw, all my arguments are the advice of 5k-7k players who responded when I asked about Invoker a while ago. So despite the fact that I am 1300 Matchmaking points below you, don't disregard completely! :D

Treads are only for when you're behind