go into lobby and enable cheats, enchant out dps's and outranges sniper late game 4-5 slotted unless enemies are in her face but if an enemy is in sniper's face he's fucked anyway, remember to raise armor of the units you're testing on accordingly because thats a huge factor late game (cuz enchant does pure), so enchant not only has a better early game, but also a stronger late game and accomplishes the exact role a sniper does (far range dps)
clinkz lacks a built in slow but thats why its common to get hex or diffusal on him.
btw in late game, i would never cast shrapnel and miss an auto attack due to its cast point, it's only use is the vision imo when enemies tryin to juke you
i'm not kidding, i'm very open minded with alternate builds and non-meta heroes but sniper simple is inferior in every way to these two heroes
that's not true, sniper can man fight with enemies in his face if he gets two of the following lifesteal/skadi/dodge that isn't countered cus headshot proc is that good. Plus by the time you get into snipers face you're like half dead usually. Enchantress just doesn't slow like that late and all her defenses are moot. I guess you could get a butterfly + skadi enchantress too but she's an early game hitter who peaks at dragon lance + aghs and then plateaus and drops when enemies can counter her touch and wisps.
Look take like a worst case example, vs a level 25 dk with ac that's 38 armor. I tried to build both as close as possible to a realistic 6 slot build and not just give sniper 5 rapiers. Sniper's got treads, skadi, butter, mkb, daedulus, mjollnir, popular 6 slot items. Enchantress has treads, mjollnir, moon shard, aghs, quaterstaff (same stats as lance), butterfly (swapping an orchid for butter is only like 4 dps more and she needs IAS over dmg items like mkb, daedulus). Mitigated dps after armor, sniper is 586, enchantress is 271. Enchantress gets in 2.92 attacks per second so we can easily add her pure dps. Her max attack range with lance and aghs is 870. 25% of 870 = 217 x 2.92 = 635 additional pure dps. Which is insane and total dps of 906. But if you just lower than attack range to 500 she does 365 pure dps, for total dps of 636. A lot closer. And who is going to just let an enchantess hit them at max range? If you say oh well supports in the back, sniper shreds those guys cus they have less armor. Change the opposing hero to a lvl 25 rubick with ac, 21 armor, snipers dps jumps to 768. Enchantress' jumps to 354, adding in her pure dps at 500 range it's 719.
She's a one trick pony late that's easily countered. Sniper is a true physical dps carry that's not so easily countered. Sniper will obliterate towers, enchantress only does tower dmg if she has an army of creeps.
They are just not comparable the way you are trying to, they fill different roles and behave totally differently. I'm not disparaging enchantress, she's a good hero and sniper is not but there is no team where you say oh snipers perfect fit here where enchantress is a better pick.
Clinkz idk, you might have me sold there, his escape is just so much better.
You must understand one thing, every hero is replaceable and counterable, however you underestimate power of sniper.
You say clinks can do better? my argument is it has to come close, break its invi and attack single target.
Riki is better? while warded area or gem in team riki wont even come close to you, plus if u make MKB riki can do shit untill he use ulti.
Ofc sniper is easy to counter, but its not 1 vs 5 game jsut 5 vs 5, good balanced team plus lat pick sniper (if there is good opportinity to pick it) is totally deadly.
Sniper isnt best hero in dota, its not even picked very often, you say its shity? I would rather say its hard hero to play.
If you plau only meta heroes then sorry, you are making your game easier. You gona wait till new meta in hope the new meta will eb good for sniper?
If you plau only meta heroes then sorry, you are making your game easier. You gona wait till new meta in hope the new meta will eb good for sniper?
i can pick a strong hero that has good laning stage/good teamfight presence/can push/can farm fast/can comeback easily (pick some of those)
or i can pick a weak hero and risk that once something gets screwed up the game is beyond saving unless opponents make a huge mistake
Lets get one thing streight, metas are good for professional players.
As for me, for the whole years ive been playing dota, I dont really care about my score untill I have good tim playing.
There is no weak hero, there is just bad farming, bad possitioning, bad luck, good counterpicks which can lead you to lose.
Saying carry hero is weak has no point to me, if its weak then it shouldnt exist as core carry.
I'm not even interested in responding to Klonu because unlike Dire, he doesn't have a brain.
@Direwolf
It's cool you're calculating everything out but you're not considering practical points. If hypothetically an Enchant went safelane (won't happen for either enchant/sniper cuz so many better choices), she is far less likely to die and also has snowball potential unlike sniper. But let's assume for argument's sake that it's an afk farm lane and dismiss those advantages for now. The Enchantress comes online far earlier than Sniper because as you can see, she requires far less gold for her 6 slots... (btw, I'd never get mjolnir or butterfly on her). Moonshard, aghs, dragon lance, mkb, boots. Which is why your DPS comparison isn't very accurate.
We're talking 20k gold vs close to 30k gold for VERY similar damage outputs. Give them an equal amount of gold and Sniper flat out loses.
The only edge a Sniper really over an Enchant is the ability to damage towers and a higher ceiling for damage output. However, this comes at the cost of earlier survivability which means your supports need to babysit instead of helping elsewhere and that you need to farm much more. An Enchant can snowball, requires little to no babysitting, can contribute early on AND achieve crazy DPS.
The resources (extra gold, babysitting, saving) to create the Sniper that outclasses Enchant that you speak of isn't worth it. This is what I mean by that an Enchant outclasses a Sniper because she can achieve what you'd pick a sniper for (far range dps against no gap closers) but has additional perks as well.
I mean, in a perfect world, I would want a a Medusa carry over anything else if I was 100% confident she would get 6 slotted.
That's not what your original argument was though, you said "so enchant not only has a better early game, but also a stronger late game and accomplishes the exact role a sniper does (far range dps)"
Then you agreed with me here: "The only edge a Sniper really over an Enchant is the ability to damage towers and a higher ceiling for damage output. However, this comes at the cost of earlier survivability which means your supports need to babysit instead of helping elsewhere and that you need to farm much more."
Why'd you change your mind? That's all I was saying that 6 slotted sniper's better. But yeah, enchantress a much stronger hero right now, sniper kinda blows especially in pubs where you will get zero protection from your team and enemy team WILL pick your counters cus they're fun, popular heroes. I mean riki, bh, spirit breaker, PA, spectre, bristleback, pudge, any one of those guys can shit all over sniper, he's just not a fun pick. But some people get away with it, especially in low skill like 2k cus they don't know how to punish a sniper pick.
If you have a 5 stack willing to rotate when you get ganked and pick frontliners like tide, earthshaker, axe? He gets really scary. He needs a buff to his early game and he'll be back in meta.
Here's a real example, http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2208955197 my brother is on sniper, average mmr of this game is probably 2k cus lich and sven SUCK, they're my friends too trying to make smurfs cus their mains are like 1.8k lol.
Sniper picked the rapier off slark he didn't build it himself. He died a lot as expected vs an earth spirit + slark + morph team but he also dished out 30k dmg and late game no one could kill him, any time they tried to 1v1 I'd stun them up and ult and slow them with frost breath.
Topic name: IS IT SNIPER REALLY BAD HERO IN CURRENT META ?
Lets get one thing streight, metas are good for professional players.
As for me, for the whole years ive been playing dota, I dont really care about my score untill I have good tim playing.
@arin, Nope, the point is you behave like an ass, just like you all are professional players.
But I understand it, hard hero, you dont know shit about it so you say ur dream rights.
yes, he's really bad in current meta.
http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/meta
6th most picked is really bad?
Reminder that 90% of Dota players are in the 0k-3.2k mmr range, so for 90% of the people Sniper is the 6th most picked. (though I admit it that that was a pretty old piece of data).
what the fuck does pick rate have to do with being a bad hero, are you really this fucking stupid?
sub 50% win rate in EVERY bracket, even your precious 500 mmr bracket he's 46%, he's behind PA for fucks sake and against people who actually know what they are doing he's around 40%, he is THIRD TO LAST in 5k, only ahead of bloodseekr and bristleback.
By comparison a hero everyone thinks is OP right now, outworld devourer peaks at 53.88% in 2k-3k. PEAKS less than +/- 4% and he's supposed to be overpowered. Sniper is at +/- 4% the other way in every bracket. He sucks right now.
So kda makes him a good hero? His kda isn't even high sub 2k, it's 2.54, it's like middle of the pack. you are a fucking idiot I am done responding to you or ever posting in one of your threads again. Attention fucking troll, nobody cares about your shit life or shit dota. You're a pathetic waste of bandwidth and you'll never be anything more.
@direwolf
open combat log
go into lobby and enable cheats, enchant out dps's and outranges sniper late game 4-5 slotted unless enemies are in her face but if an enemy is in sniper's face he's fucked anyway, remember to raise armor of the units you're testing on accordingly because thats a huge factor late game (cuz enchant does pure), so enchant not only has a better early game, but also a stronger late game and accomplishes the exact role a sniper does (far range dps)
clinkz lacks a built in slow but thats why its common to get hex or diffusal on him.
btw in late game, i would never cast shrapnel and miss an auto attack due to its cast point, it's only use is the vision imo when enemies tryin to juke you
i'm not kidding, i'm very open minded with alternate builds and non-meta heroes but sniper simple is inferior in every way to these two heroes
that's not true, sniper can man fight with enemies in his face if he gets two of the following lifesteal/skadi/dodge that isn't countered cus headshot proc is that good. Plus by the time you get into snipers face you're like half dead usually. Enchantress just doesn't slow like that late and all her defenses are moot. I guess you could get a butterfly + skadi enchantress too but she's an early game hitter who peaks at dragon lance + aghs and then plateaus and drops when enemies can counter her touch and wisps.
Sniper: http://devilesk.com/dota2/apps/hero-calculator?id=1jJEEqd3IrQUhHUT
Enchantress: http://devilesk.com/dota2/apps/hero-calculator?id=Awqpd94RBdvwmbut
Look take like a worst case example, vs a level 25 dk with ac that's 38 armor. I tried to build both as close as possible to a realistic 6 slot build and not just give sniper 5 rapiers. Sniper's got treads, skadi, butter, mkb, daedulus, mjollnir, popular 6 slot items. Enchantress has treads, mjollnir, moon shard, aghs, quaterstaff (same stats as lance), butterfly (swapping an orchid for butter is only like 4 dps more and she needs IAS over dmg items like mkb, daedulus). Mitigated dps after armor, sniper is 586, enchantress is 271. Enchantress gets in 2.92 attacks per second so we can easily add her pure dps. Her max attack range with lance and aghs is 870. 25% of 870 = 217 x 2.92 = 635 additional pure dps. Which is insane and total dps of 906. But if you just lower than attack range to 500 she does 365 pure dps, for total dps of 636. A lot closer. And who is going to just let an enchantess hit them at max range? If you say oh well supports in the back, sniper shreds those guys cus they have less armor. Change the opposing hero to a lvl 25 rubick with ac, 21 armor, snipers dps jumps to 768. Enchantress' jumps to 354, adding in her pure dps at 500 range it's 719.
She's a one trick pony late that's easily countered. Sniper is a true physical dps carry that's not so easily countered. Sniper will obliterate towers, enchantress only does tower dmg if she has an army of creeps.
They are just not comparable the way you are trying to, they fill different roles and behave totally differently. I'm not disparaging enchantress, she's a good hero and sniper is not but there is no team where you say oh snipers perfect fit here where enchantress is a better pick.
Clinkz idk, you might have me sold there, his escape is just so much better.
You must understand one thing, every hero is replaceable and counterable, however you underestimate power of sniper.
You say clinks can do better? my argument is it has to come close, break its invi and attack single target.
Riki is better? while warded area or gem in team riki wont even come close to you, plus if u make MKB riki can do shit untill he use ulti.
Ofc sniper is easy to counter, but its not 1 vs 5 game jsut 5 vs 5, good balanced team plus lat pick sniper (if there is good opportinity to pick it) is totally deadly.
Sniper isnt best hero in dota, its not even picked very often, you say its shity? I would rather say its hard hero to play.
If you plau only meta heroes then sorry, you are making your game easier. You gona wait till new meta in hope the new meta will eb good for sniper?
i can pick a strong hero that has good laning stage/good teamfight presence/can push/can farm fast/can comeback easily (pick some of those)
or i can pick a weak hero and risk that once something gets screwed up the game is beyond saving unless opponents make a huge mistake
tough choice
Lets get one thing streight, metas are good for professional players.
As for me, for the whole years ive been playing dota, I dont really care about my score untill I have good tim playing.
There is no weak hero, there is just bad farming, bad possitioning, bad luck, good counterpicks which can lead you to lose.
Saying carry hero is weak has no point to me, if its weak then it shouldnt exist as core carry.
I'm not even interested in responding to Klonu because unlike Dire, he doesn't have a brain.
@Direwolf
It's cool you're calculating everything out but you're not considering practical points. If hypothetically an Enchant went safelane (won't happen for either enchant/sniper cuz so many better choices), she is far less likely to die and also has snowball potential unlike sniper. But let's assume for argument's sake that it's an afk farm lane and dismiss those advantages for now. The Enchantress comes online far earlier than Sniper because as you can see, she requires far less gold for her 6 slots... (btw, I'd never get mjolnir or butterfly on her). Moonshard, aghs, dragon lance, mkb, boots. Which is why your DPS comparison isn't very accurate.
We're talking 20k gold vs close to 30k gold for VERY similar damage outputs. Give them an equal amount of gold and Sniper flat out loses.
The only edge a Sniper really over an Enchant is the ability to damage towers and a higher ceiling for damage output. However, this comes at the cost of earlier survivability which means your supports need to babysit instead of helping elsewhere and that you need to farm much more. An Enchant can snowball, requires little to no babysitting, can contribute early on AND achieve crazy DPS.
The resources (extra gold, babysitting, saving) to create the Sniper that outclasses Enchant that you speak of isn't worth it. This is what I mean by that an Enchant outclasses a Sniper because she can achieve what you'd pick a sniper for (far range dps against no gap closers) but has additional perks as well.
I mean, in a perfect world, I would want a a Medusa carry over anything else if I was 100% confident she would get 6 slotted.
That's not what your original argument was though, you said "so enchant not only has a better early game, but also a stronger late game and accomplishes the exact role a sniper does (far range dps)"
Then you agreed with me here: "The only edge a Sniper really over an Enchant is the ability to damage towers and a higher ceiling for damage output. However, this comes at the cost of earlier survivability which means your supports need to babysit instead of helping elsewhere and that you need to farm much more."
Why'd you change your mind? That's all I was saying that 6 slotted sniper's better. But yeah, enchantress a much stronger hero right now, sniper kinda blows especially in pubs where you will get zero protection from your team and enemy team WILL pick your counters cus they're fun, popular heroes. I mean riki, bh, spirit breaker, PA, spectre, bristleback, pudge, any one of those guys can shit all over sniper, he's just not a fun pick. But some people get away with it, especially in low skill like 2k cus they don't know how to punish a sniper pick.
If you have a 5 stack willing to rotate when you get ganked and pick frontliners like tide, earthshaker, axe? He gets really scary. He needs a buff to his early game and he'll be back in meta.
Here's a real example, http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2208955197 my brother is on sniper, average mmr of this game is probably 2k cus lich and sven SUCK, they're my friends too trying to make smurfs cus their mains are like 1.8k lol.
Sniper picked the rapier off slark he didn't build it himself. He died a lot as expected vs an earth spirit + slark + morph team but he also dished out 30k dmg and late game no one could kill him, any time they tried to 1v1 I'd stun them up and ult and slow them with frost breath.
Topic name: IS IT SNIPER REALLY BAD HERO IN CURRENT META ?
i suggest that you should stop posting.
you're talking about irrelevant shit. it's nice that you're having fun for sniper but the point of the topic is strategy discussion
yes, he's really bad in current meta.
http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/meta
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2214462714
or maybe this snipe. my gold aroun 5k or 6k at the end.
@arin, Nope, the point is you behave like an ass, just like you all are professional players.
But I understand it, hard hero, you dont know shit about it so you say ur dream rights.
SEA, normal skill, normal matchmaking
6th most picked is really bad?
Reminder that 90% of Dota players are in the 0k-3.2k mmr range, so for 90% of the people Sniper is the 6th most picked. (though I admit it that that was a pretty old piece of data).
what the fuck does pick rate have to do with being a bad hero, are you really this fucking stupid?
sub 50% win rate in EVERY bracket, even your precious 500 mmr bracket he's 46%, he's behind PA for fucks sake and against people who actually know what they are doing he's around 40%, he is THIRD TO LAST in 5k, only ahead of bloodseekr and bristleback.
By comparison a hero everyone thinks is OP right now, outworld devourer peaks at 53.88% in 2k-3k. PEAKS less than +/- 4% and he's supposed to be overpowered. Sniper is at +/- 4% the other way in every bracket. He sucks right now.
He's not a winrate hero. He's a KDA hero. Look at average Sniper KDA's under 2000 mmr.
I feel sorry for the people who average a KDA under 2 on Sniper.
Yea because kda > winning games
This guy
To sniper players KDA > everything.
If there was an earthquake outside their house the sniper player'd say "no, I can't evacuate, I gotta play Dota and get my KDA higher."
So kda makes him a good hero? His kda isn't even high sub 2k, it's 2.54, it's like middle of the pack. you are a fucking idiot I am done responding to you or ever posting in one of your threads again. Attention fucking troll, nobody cares about your shit life or shit dota. You're a pathetic waste of bandwidth and you'll never be anything more.
2.54 is the people who just started dota and picked sniper and don't know that he doesn't have to be there to ult people.