One huge mistake I see carry shakers doing is ALWAYS going a 1-4-1-1 build which is horrible. At lower levels, it's much more worth it levelling 1 or 2 more points into aftershock for the extra aoe damage (last hitting while keeping enchant totem's mana cost low at 20) and lockdown.
If you calculate it out, you don't lose that much damage since you're proccing aftershock 3 times with your combo. It also holds the surprise factor because people don't expect that much lockdown or damage. With a 1-4-1-1, people can tell you're attempting something from miles away the moment they see you cast enchant early.
aghs doesnt fit well here, its better to go full rightclick mode and get 2nd daedalus or ac.
^ actually thought about AC but not the 2nd daedalus. i hardly built a repetitive item ever. except probably for a double battlefury on ember, kunkka, sven
dont build more than one bfury on kka :)
also speaking about kunkka, if you are not going for rapiers after 1st daedalus, 2nd daedalus is the best option by far.
stacking crits is not that bad btw, going 1->2 you dont lose that much, however the 3rd provides very low additional crit chance and is never optimal.
also ive seen a lot of core shakers going for shivas, hex or octarine after the items listed above
hmm what about a 6 slotted carry cm...
Aghs/BKB/Heart/Dagon/Euls/Silver Edge
Sheep stick, refresher or linkins could also be canidates?
I don't think damage items on her ever make sense because of her attack speed
Crudude, my friend used something similar against bots:
Aghs/BKB/Octarine/Blink/Tranq -> BoT/Glimmer.
Octarine + Ult + BKB made CM nearly impossible to kill while ult was active, but I don't know how a CM in a real match against human players would get that much farm.
As for the author's ES idea, wouldn't a hybrid crit/spell shaker be better? Something like:
Aghs/Refresher/Shadowblade->Silver Edge/Daedalus/Blink/Treads -> BoT?
(Refresher is the last item; bottle can replace refresher's slot in the early/mid game. Maybe this is just me, but the marginal gain from being able to solo-kill a 2.5k HP target before he can react isn't really worth losing the stronger AoE/CC of Aghs + Refresher.)
Heart gives more damage by average, since crit is chance-based. But getting a lucky crit usually oneshots or takes over half health of a fatty.
Here's how I would build CM (theory-crafting)
- skill build: max Frost Bite + max Nova + max Stats
- item build: Treads + Drums + Aquila + Rod of Atos + BKB + Scepter
late game: upgrade Drums to Heart; upgrade Aquila to Shivas
- gameplay: Safe lane Carry. she's too vulnerable for ganks to be played as mid.
no Mana Aura but would rather rely on early Basilius -> Aquila.
skills are not meant to be spammed for zoning out off-lane but to rather go for kill attempts.
since the mana cost of skills are too high so can only go for 1 combo perhaps every 2 minutes
Early game: goal is to farm Drums + Aquila to make yourself tanky before the mid game skirmishes
Md game: goal is to bank/kill more than to farm, Why? You want to take advantage of your high leve and Ultimate while opponent carries don't have a BKB yet. Would be nice to get 2-3 kills on enemy carry. Should be farming up the Rod of Atos during these skirmishes.
Late game BKB + Scepter = very high DPS as long as there's proper positioning
Caveat: Being able to channel your Ult completely would be hard.
Keeping the enemy team locked down during clash
will be hard when faced against an aggressive 3 lane
You really do not want to fight as a Shaker, you want to surprise people and burst them down. This means AC is a fairly bad item on him, as he's not gonna use his attack speed, but more so, burst people down. Getting an early armlet is pretty good for this purpose, blink+armlet+lvl4 enchant totem is a ton of damage, and by the time you have that you still can't be bursted down that easily. Lategame, you'll wish you didn't have your AC but something that actually helps you burst people down.
^ yep. hence the priority on daedalus and desolator.
but after those 2, what would be your next item of choice?
- Aghanim's Scepter (I went for this)
- Assault Cuirass (2nd choice)
- another Daedalus (as suggested by TripleSteal)
ac is a very lategame pickup usually aimed to help ur team rather than to improve ur own rightclick
at that point of the game u dont rly expect to outrightclick enemy team's carry btw
Skywrath Mage with Aghs, eblade, Bloodstone, Skadi, Hex + INT treads has 222 INT, 239 dmg
Arcane Bolt 2 sec cd, does 475 magic dmg, with eblade and base magic resistance its 499 dmg actual per bolt. Ancient Seal stacks, making it 1357 dmg from 2 acrane bolts that hit during eblade and Ancient Seal. (4 seconds to apply damage)
Zero cd on Mystic Flare, does 1400 magic dmg, with eblade, Ancient Seal, and base magic resistance its 1999 damage done in 2.4 seconds.
The 2nd Mystic Flare does another 1333 dmg before eblade debuff ends.
Minor dmg from concusive shot with all magic amp and resists => another 343 dmg
Eblade itself does 519 dmg.
So carry Skywrath can take a single target down from 5551 hp to zero before doing an attack in 4 seconds. Since this is a carry someone else should be doing the blink-disable to prevent bkb etc... but almost any hero using any build would die in the first 3 sec while hexed without additional disables. Huskar with Heart might survive since Hex does not have Break anymore...maybe switch to Silver Edge instead of eblade to kill huskar.
With Eblade, Hex, Skadi he has the tools to take down any hero 1 v 1 and kill 5 in a prolonged teamfight.
Carry Skywrath Mage has a mana pool of 3436, so he can cast everything, including 4 Mystic Flares in a teamfight if needed.
Although Mystic Flare has no cd, he will run out of mana spamming an 800 mp spell. With 12 Bloodstone charges he can regen enough to cast Mystic Flare in just over 8 seonds so the effective cd depends on Bloodstone charges... but basically he will be able to cast 4 Mystic Flares right away, and then another one or two if he has to chase anyone down.
However Arcane Bolt costs only 70 mp for 475 magic dmg. So its more reasonable to cast 3 Mystic Flares in a teamfight for burst, then spam Arcanes to clean up.
Skywrath could easily do the sort of magic carrying that Zues, OD, or 6.84 Leshrac perform with this build. I've never seen anyone actually try it. As a carry, this build is basically all offense. I did not even make room for a bkb, which would be more realistic. Skywrath builds people actually use are a lot less powerful because they are support builds and a lot less Networth of items as well.
Venomancer can carry for a short window - Can you get to level 11 before they get mech? Can you get aghs before they get pipe?
If Veno can hit a 5 man Poison Nova, and the enemy team is around level 10 with no mech... or around level 14 and no pipe vs Aghs upgrade... then just hitting Poison Nova alone wins the fight. Instantly their whole team has to retreat or is certain to die, really anyone who can't juke and tp to the fountain will die because they will come so close to dieing just from that one spell. 1760 magic dmg to every hero, 1320 dmg after basec resistance.
This will mean a shadow blade, or at higher levels of play a blink dagger on Venomancer. You need it quickly, probably by 10 minutes if you want to have more than one use of Poison Nova before mech. Blink dagger and Mech cost about the same, if they have a mid hero farming the mech right away the window is so small... then you have to force an early teamfight by taking towers. The mech adds 333 magic EHP to all heroes, making Nova far weaker. Pipe adds at least another 600 magic EHP to each hero. You can reverse this somewhat with Veil of Discord but eventually people will all get Hood and bkb in a game where Venomancer is a problem.
Nevertheless in the unlikely scenario that Venomancer gets free farm and solo xp, he could be a carry mid game. Turning that early, unexpected farm into a situation where the enemy cannot win a fight. Veil of Discord is almost as good as Aghs and half the cost.
Probably the best Carry Veno build would be Blink Dagger => Veil of Discord => Aghs => Silver Edge. Late game a carry Veno would have to wait for bkbs to run out before joining the fight. Hopefully Veno's early game power would force bkb charges to be used up early or better still win the game before anyone gets bkbs.
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On the other hand, any hero at all can build the normal carry items and do a lot of physical dps. If you got Silver Edge, Butterfly, Deadalus, and two Divine Rapiers then Venomancer would do almost as much physical dps as any other typical agi carry. But I really don't think people attempting a physical dps Venomancer would succeed nearly as much as going for the mid-game magic dmg power that comes naturally to Venomancer.
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Comparing the potential, suppose at 500 gpm you can get blink+Veil+ Aghs at 18 minutes, and be level 16.... It's then possible for Veno's ult to hit all 5 heroes with Veil and that alone does 1760 damage to each hero or 550 dps. The equivalent 10k networth physical dps Venomancer with only Butterfly + Shadowblade would achieve about 225 dps which drops to nothing special at all once armor is considered.
Critshaker( right click shaker is stupid) popular build is usually treads-armlet-blink-daedalus-2nd daedalus-heart- and last item, mayhe aghs or octarine.
thing is, you armlet, totem, wait CD, jump, hit, totem again for stun, hit, fissure and usually any hero at about ~20-25 min is dead.
Also, what do you mean by carry? You mean rightclick? Or just farm priority.
because there are some non-rightclickers that are pretty good given some farm and sometimes they can be pos 1 farm priority.
venomancer comes to mind, hell, old EG showed some Tidehunter or visage carry. Well, fear was kind of playing a pos 2 safelane to make space for pos 1 mid Arteezy, but still
@Arin, yeah that's why Veno Carry has a small window. You have to win very early before supports can afford anything. If you beat the mech timing you can keep killing everyone again and again because Veno's cd's are so low.
I think Tidehunter can be a legitimate carry taking farm priority directly into teamwipes. Refresher- Shiva's build is so strong, it almost always wins a fight if you hit a 5 man double ravage, double Shivas. It's a 5.5 second stun on their whole team that means every other ability on your team will certainly hit before anyone does anything defensive. And 870 damage to all heroes is a nice bonus for the combo. The mere threat of Ravage in often enough to win teamfights, zoning people so far back they can't defend their base for fear of dieing in the attempt.
With farm priority Tidehunter can go for blink-arcanes-mech-GG-refresher-shivas its a crushing initiation or counter initiation. The only weakness is really the long cd's which could be repaired with octarine core at the end.
That doesn't make tide a carry though, that's a tide 2nd or 3rd spot, which is exactly how pros play him and generally how pubs play him too, he just doesn't get that much farm priority in pubs.
I like carry shadow shaman and witch dr, like go mid, get farm. Both with aghs become nasty, aghs refresher shadow shaman, aghs glimmer cape with dr will wipe entire teams.
What are you talking about? Carry Tidehunter must build items like S&Y, Skadi, Heart, AC, etc...
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"Carry" in the context of being able to carry your team to victory because of the farm priority given to you. Could be:
- main DPS
- teamfight disables
- game changing skills
Earthshaker (nothing new)
- skill build: max Enchant Totem first
- item build: Bottle + Treads + Shadow Blade/Dagger/Force Staff + Daedalus + Aghs
- gameplay: take mid since you need to be one of the highest levels in the map to be effective and you need to gank side lanes with runes.
- other notables: might be difficult to lane mid against ranged heroes.
Daedalus/Deso are the only recommended DPS items since this ES is more of a semi-burst physical damage hero. After these 2 items, Agh's would naturally still be a good item choice.