Position 4 has 1 item and Position 5 have no items (not even boots)
Position 4 usually supports that needs farm to get core items.
In terms of hero pool, which heroes are better suited for 4 and which are better suited for 5?
#5 - CM, Dazzle, Lich, Lion, Omni, Oracle, Rubick, SS, Sky, Venge, WD, WW.
Everything else is #4.
This is where the concept of position 4 and 5 start to have flaws. Lion, Rubick, SS definitely need that dagger to perform. Sure late game they can be #5, but early game they are more of #4.
you dont need blink to be relevant as ss, lion and rubick; you can do nice w/o it.
also, ww, ss, wd and cm are often played as pos 4 as well.
Well, most pos5 supports CAN benefit from farm. CM can wreck teamfights with blink/aghs/glimmer/bkb, Lion can hit really hard with his ultimate with aghs+blink, etc. But the thing is, those heroes are not your CORE heroes for a reason. You have an idea why you've picked them, and placed tehm on position 5. It's because you want limited utility from them. You certainly can have position 2-3-4 lion if you want. But other heroes are going to do more things with that farm, so naturally, lion's gonna take a dive, unless there's an obvious position 5 hero in your team, like AA, for example. There have been a plenty of position 2 shadow shamans and lions in DotA's past, but people have then realized that those heroes can do most of their thing without taking much farm from heroes that scale better with it.
It's about hero duos more than single heroes. The less greedy one is usually 5.
In my pubs I find there is no real difference
There is either one position 5 (and no 4) or two position 4s lol
You can't play pos5 support at lower levels simply because you will have no impact in the game. Being greedy will help you do something, and this is unfortunate, for example, in Normal Skill. Their supports will share EXP with their carries, so your impact will be limited because you are level 4 when their support in lane is level 6, but your carry is level 8 and theirs 6, but you can't use that advantage because there's little coordination to be had, and people usually do not quite understand what advantage they have if they let carry have solo exp for some time.
So in low level pubs, there's literally no 1-5 system, you have safelane carry, mid carry, offlane carry, then maybe one more carry that splits lane farm with someone or jungles, and one support if you are lucky.
Pos 5 is selfless, Pos 4 is greedy. The best way to keep up as a 5 role I've found is to buy a smoke with your wards and gather someone strong + your greedy support and gank at the same time as warding. That way your warding time is spent getting your team a vision advantage as well as gaining yourself and two other XP. Or it fails and gg but that's dota.
Guys, when I play supports for my stack, I usually pick really aggresive ones like AA, CM, etc. What do you call me?
"correct warding has a lot of impact at any level"
Provided people look on the minimap, I guess.
before asking you should learn WHAT THEY FUCKING ARE YOU FUCKING RUSSIAN STUPID MONKEY
Some support heroes need a core item to function well mid-game. Some don't. If you have one that does need something like a blink mid-game it helps to have a 5 position support take the majority of the warding so the 4 can accumulate enough gold for the blink/fstaff/glimmer cape or whatever. If they split the gold equally neither will get that item in time.
Benao I was referring to sven, I didnt expect you would also comment here as well
Ofc Benao is numbah 1 in mah heart 3h3h3h3
I think it depends on enemy heroes to determinate which heroes gonna be 4 or 5, if you can make good team fight securing the Witch doctor's life, he must be your 4, rush Agha and make a strongest damage to the enemy team. Other example, maybe for pubs. If the enemy team get a lot of Str Heroes or a lot of armor heroes, you want to be a 4 Dazzle and no a 5, Rush (again) Aghamin and make a -40 Armor to help your teammates more than only placing wards. It depends on the game more than heroes.
dazzle rushing aghs sounds like a bullshit to me
get medallion into solar instead and dont spend 4200 on a relatively useless item
dazzle should be first pick in competitive, TOP pick. Pros are just too slow to realize!
Nooooo hopefully the pros never realise that
I am loving playing with Dazzle and don't want Dazzle to be pub infested :(
The difference is just who buys wards. 5s are expected to buy all wards until 4 has like one item. Like if you are playing shadow shaman and cm, cm is probably buying all the wards while shaman gets aghs, then switch so cm can get item. In pubs anyway where there is no 3 spot, just 3 carries, 2 supports.
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Is there any difference? I do not feel much difference between these 2 positions.