General DiscussionI don't WANT to suck...

bot matches don't affect who you're matched up against. that'd be dumb because bots aren't challenging. learning bots is good for learning basics like what the items do, what abilities certain heroes have, et cetera. not really a learning tool because you don't learn anything from repeatedly killing bots that are as dumb as bricks.

are your friends much more experienced than you, or are they in the same boat as you - mostly playing against bots.

if it's the latter, how do you know that you're the culprit for all their losses, are they playing without you with better success? if not, they're probably just as bad as you are.

That's fair... We're all pretty much in the same boat. My wife is actually the one who's pulled ahead and started doing more pubbing on her own and the rest of us are kinda getting caught in her momentum, and she and her old roommate have been playing since Dota 1. Out of the half-dozen of us who play together, I'd confidently say that I'm the third most experienced (though that margin between second and third is hhhhHELLA wide). And truthfully I almost never play unless I'm stacked with friends. Looking back at the stats, most of my wins come either from solo queue in Limited, or when we're stacking 4 or 5 of us.

So . . . yeah, I suppose zero real experience and subconscious insecurity emerging from dynamics with my SO does not a recipe for patience make. (Any lurking psychoanalysts can come out and have a field-day with this one :P).

idk why would u even bother playing vs bots thats super counter productive lol

watch better players play and pick up on what they do

dont come back to bot games ever. dont be aftaid of losing and holding team back. theonly thing u need is practice. just play solo MM as often as possible, try different heroes and roles, etc.

dont play solo ever if u can stack with people who know how to play and get tips from them as u play

playing solo is cancerous

@vaikiss
not for a guy with 40 games in dota. at this point the best for him would be to get any kind of game experience, and the amount of games per unit of time is hgher in solo.

for the same reason its currently senseless for him to watch high skilled players' streams/guides. in order to make it useful u need a certain basis, at least a bit of personally acquired experience and game understandng.

He said he played the game for 600 hours, thats a decent amount of time for him, even against bots to understand what he likes to play and basics of the game mechanics wise. Although playing bots for that long might've hurt him eventually

I'm thinking of just going into Limited for a little while and going until I've played through the entire Limited pool before I jump into the complicated world of All-Pick. Thoughts?

Also I have plenty of experience with how cancerous the Dota community can be (and I've contributed, sad to say), but I've been really pleased to see all the helpful and interested people come out of the wood-work and I want to thank you all up front for that.

@abunai aite
bots give u some knows of mechanics, but matches against people are way different. unfortunately, experience gained in bot matches wont count here.

@Brosephus
it doesnt matter that much. you can start with AP as well.

Limited heroes is barely 20 heroes, and some of them might not even be fit for the meta etc etc. Also limited pool is the same so you might get into a lot of similar looking games draft wise.

It might be better for you to just go on youtube see the hero spotlight thing on dotabuff, or even read a few heroes descriptions, see what you like to play , or would like to learn, and just watch some youtube videos for streamers/professionals who play that hero consistently in recent patches.

Some youtube guides also exist although learning from professional players is my personal preference, since they're generally of a higher skill lvl than people making youtube guides

Yeah I get that, playstyle vs humans and vs bots is completely different, but its not like watching pros would be useless for him compared to say a beginner who just installed the game.

If he sees a pro player play a certain hero, he knows what the hero's skills are how they work, and would understand it better than a complete beginner

I would still suggest to start with 100-150 matches without watching streams/guides/etc., and focus on learning some specific stuff later. So far the marginal utility of watching some Wagamama's guide for Ta is way lower than playing a TA game without any tips. The very basics gotta be learnt by urself, and without these simple game understanding you wont be able to improve thanks to others' guides.

One of my main frustrations has been a lack of team synergy, or being over-zealous about counter-picking. I.e., thinking too hard about "Oh shit, it's X, who do I pick to counter," which ends up meaning I'm under-prepared for the rest of the lineup or not synergizing with my own line-up very well. We consistently have an early game advantage that we give up in mid-game, or a mid-game advantage that we lose when it turns over into late-game.

A main culprit lately has been Storm Spirit. Every time we play a game I try a different way of dealing with him and he always gets out of control. Most successful has been Death Prophet, but still, I always get scared when I see him get picked.

Normal skill players are basically bots.

sometimes u have to lose to win. don't be afraid to try normal matches, after all the worse that could happen is u lose, cool off a bit and then play again.

ffs man i would prefer going 10 hrs bot matches to learn the basics then jump to pubs and get better by simple experience..
u have 500hrs experience with bots... bots are retarded asf...
and yeah u are only ''FEELLING'' the game but u are not ''IN THE GAME''.. u seem completely lost into a game..
well i always tell the truth to all people asking for advice or anything here on forums.
u hold ur friends back and yeah u are pretty useless on most of ur games BUT there is a light there u can chase it i think

1) On normal skill games u play , people are bad.. all of them that means if u play better u win no matter picks or anything
2) watch replays of better players and see how they play with the ''x'' hero see their perspective
3) with 600hrs of dota and 500 of them with bots i can see u like a completely new player with 5hrs of dota cause this 500hrs bots is 99% useless. so step by step learn from ur mistakes and try to get better.
4) always carry a tp no matter what a tp can save u or ur teamate
5) stop ranked mm and try some normal games with ur friends
6) the key is to learn each hero's LIMITS so u know when to fight or when to back ( and know ur enemies strengths and weakness)
7) practice with a variety of heroes and find 3 heroes ur comfortable with the most
8) since u find wich heroes u are good with and u like to play focus on them while learning about all heroes. see replays of better players on these 3 heroes u play and get ideas and stuff so u can improve ur gameplay
9) and last dont give up.. dota is love dota is life. dont rage. keep calm and beat dem asses

Yo Brosephus, first add me man so we can check ur games.

I like your drive man, thats good. Now to make it simple, pick a hero that your most comfortable with, maybe pick one from your bot days. Once uv decided, master that hero first man.

Check replays of top players for that hero and also learn while not playing the game.

Now, what hardware and internet logistics are we talking bout here? ur pc and net ok? those are also impt.

Add me up and we can talk more.

pick a mid/crry hero....actually choose 1 core hero andplay with that hero alot of games....in ur lvl u should focus on lasthitting...just learn to lasthit learn to get as much creeps as u can thats all...if u r able to outlasthit those of ur lvl u will defently surpass them

I know exactly how you feel, as I'm in pretty much the same boat, though I realized that the major point is that I don't know how the hero's work and learning enough of the hero to execute proper builds. you just need practice, start with a small pool, I did with witch doctor, and eventually you will find a way to be resourceful and what you're good at doing. Try playing the farming game with a few hero's, work on some spell combos, and proper itemization, should help your game.

stop playing with bots, make you seem terribly retarded. Which i assume you are. The way out is playing real games, feeding and adapting,learning the game because what you're doing is even "less" than lets say a guy trying to learn football and hitting a "beach ball" against the wall while sitting on a chair and taking a dump

@Bad Intentions: Added. Thanks, man. I'll be honest, I might be hit-or-miss for a while. Grad school is my first priority and basically my job (if we wanted to continue talking about poor decision-making...) so it leaves me with limited time to devote to really practicing my game, but any time we can intersect, I'll be more than glad for the help.

I would love to try and play a few games with you Brosephus, I'm also a 2k scrub and we could both learn something from each other. Just sad I'm on my holidays with no dotka... :/

Maybe in a week or so, just add me if u want

@Pela1: Added you. Looking forward to it!

@brosephus, hey man thats fine, me too have a full time job, but like ive said, as much as playing online, you can learn offline as well. u have a smartphone man? if you have those idle time, and have a data plan, watch videos man, any helpful dota guides will do about anything, thats how u learn offline. accepted ur invite btw.

@Bad Intentions: Terrific, thanks. Yeah, my wife and I spend a lot of time watching Dota Cinema, Purge, and Baumi together, and I lurk DotaFire and the wiki almost every day. I guess my retention just hasn't been that great :P

Actually, my wife's b-day is coming up too and we're gonna turn TI5 into a super-bowl-type event from our living room with a bunch of friends. I'll make it a point to pay even harder attention this year >_<

@Brosephus Sweet, I'll tell you as soon as I'm on my pc again ready for some doto.

And well, enjoy TI these days, for sure the best exhibition of true dota.

@Makarazium: Thanks for all all your advice as well. The single thing that keeps coming up for me is "Patience." Patience within any given game, patience with myself, patience with the inevitable flood of losses, patience with gathering teammates, and most importantly being patience enough to just let the process take the time it'll take, which might be longer for me than other people.

I think I'm beginning to be ok with that.

Yo Bros, thats great that the wife is also into doto. Also, you mentioned that the wife is a little bit better than u in teh game? What hero does she use? Also, dont fret man, females are left brain dominant, more analytical n stuff, so technically they should be playin better that us in doto 😀

HA! There's a reason she got her graduate degree in psych and I'm doing mine in philosophy :P

Honestly, she's pretty damn versatile. Plays a lot of Spirit Breaker, QOP, and Crystal Maiden though... Those are the ones which come immediately to mind.

I think you're overthinking things lol.

Just play and enjoy the game.

Yea as stated you're over thinking you just need to play more games until you can start worrying about winrates, try to get 200-400 games atleast.