Familiars no longer have 300/450/600 health
Familiars now require 4 hero attacks to be killed (creeps/illusions do 1/4 damage, towers do 1/2)
counterhelix isn't a hero attack :) ...
And now that I think about it... pushing a tower with things that can tank 14 tower hits sound fairly powerfull.
in some situation its better. in some worse. but glad u play visage - he is so forgotten in pubbies :(
Tested in a lobby and quill spray doesn't hurt them either - basically his two hard counters have disappeared...
The birds are super tanky now.
oh wow - they aren't hit by cleave either. without wanting to sound melodramatic i'm sure he's op now.
they do 2k hp in 2secs weighted to the start of their attack period - unlikely any hero will be able to bring the birds down before they've done significant damage. and if they have stoneform up then they can just start again 10secs later...
magic immune too of course....
Uh that's like 8 attacks with 3 familiars to do that much dmg and their bat is 0.4. It takes aghs and ~3 seconds to rip off that much, but yes, still pretty strong. I may have to give visage another run.
Well I also didn't bother mentioning the 410 magic damage he can do on top of that or that the target would have -7/-10 armor due to a medallion/solar crest :)
And don't forget that each bird needs to be hit 4 times to be killed -even a lvl3 raged alch with a moonshard will still take 2secs to kill one bird - so rather than 2088, something like 1800.
His win rate is up about 3.5% over last patch but it's still only 45%. I don't think he's op dude. He's not hard to kill early before he gets many points in his armor, his nuke is strong but has a build up, and his stun is unreliable since you need those familiars. His teamfight presence is fine but not as strong as other heroes. And he's best as a 3 or 4 slot, not a 5, and sadly you get relegated to a 5 all the time on him.
for a micro intensive hero 45% isn't bad, he is right between meepo and brood, both of whom are OP when they are last picked against the right line up. he isn't stronk like Ebola or troll was, or undying is, but he could be easy wins in the right situation.
Check out vp polar lil, guy is ~6.4k and spamming Visage mid with great succes (http://www.dotabuff.com/players/106809101). I tried to recreate on this smurf, 13 win streak with Visage mid so far. Too bad the vast majority of people still think he is a 5 though, every Visge mid game is like 'Visage mid, we fucking lost' and every Visage support game is like 'gg visage didnt buy wards so i couldnt get my aghs on lion'.
yup, that's probably the biggest issue playing him, just like trying to go shadow shaman, leshrac or witch dr carry mid builds.
It's pretty hard to solo queue visage for that reason^
His aghs upgrade is so strong, and his birds are easily underestimated
its still a visage, nothing broken here.
its not like a good visage would lose his gargs anyway
@nova now even a bad visage has to try really hard to feed his birds. it is pretty much impossible to kill them after they come out of stone form and fly away.
they are also no longer food in late game team fights.
i think lil super star got it right though - his problem in pubs is one of teammate ignorance...
Or keeping your team in the dark.
If some guy was like "solo mid visage pls" or put your face on the map, I'd be like "sure, why not"... if a guy picks visage and stays silent... I'm likely to assume a 3 or 4 position....
It goes the same for, np... I *will* pick an offlane if prophet pickers say nothing... I'd rather np offlane, but silent prophet pickers usually jungle.
It's sad...:-( doesn't seem fair that I've had to put with troll and sniper for what felt like a lifetime and then get 3 games of visage before he's nerfed...
Tbh 3 hits is close to being balanced. Still invincible vs melee and most ranged most of the game I guess.
How exactly do you play him? I have no clue what play style or item build...... His low pick rate makes me want to play him
Hes pretty simple in concept: ctrl-attack, slow with Q, activate medallion/solar crest, once your birds have unleashed hell, nuke them for the win. As you get better you can use sneakier approaches for the birds.
In team fights outflank the enemy to get at their squishes, nuke down fleeing targets. If everything is going to sh1t use your stuns.
Whenever the panic of over-micro kicks in then tab stun all your birds and breathe...
If you're feeding your birds just send them off and split push with them.
That's pretty much all I do in normal skill anyway.
There's probably more to it but to be honest, most people either under or over estimate your birds and makes life simple :-)
5.9k hero dmg in a pro game with Drow -> op
Hero is trash again, pub winrate already down by 2%, now at an amazing 44%.
Ench is worse though, not sure why IG would first pick that shit.
Tbh though they should just remove the Drow interaction, I never get good Drows in my pubs anyway. Without that interaction he will barely be picked in pro games and Icefrog can start buffing him again.
BTW the best counter to Visage right now is Winter + Gyro. Freeze unit next to birds and have gyro right click them all down with flak. And if you can't do that, get either heroes with illusions/summons (PL, Lycan, Brood etc) or high mobility heroes (Weaver, Storm, Slark). Visage is really bad at dealing with those. If the Visage is support another option is to just pick strong lanes and deathball, making sure he doesn't get his level 6 before 15 minutes, at which point the game is pretty much over anyway. He is useless before 6 and has no counterpush.
Somewhat ironic that you would say he's trash because he can be countered by pl/brood - two of the most counterable heroes of the game...
He's countered by a lot more heroes. Those two were just examples I mentioned. The fact that PL/Brood can be countered pretty easily doesn't make Visage less trash. In fact Visage has a 38% winrate against PL. This game http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1463262359 is a prime example, easy game that gets really hard cause my team has no way to deal with PL.
On another note playing him mid is a decent way to boost mmr. 17 win streak doing that on this smurf. I think I have lost more birds the last 3 games than I lost through the rest of the streak though, fuck that nerf.
I've definitely lost more birds since the nerf.
Still don't get why you call him trash when you've continued pwning with him in 6.84b however :)
On another note, what's your item progression? do you finish solar crest before or after aghs? similarly, where does atos fit in? myself i go med>aghs>solar>ac because i can't handle any more buttons to press...
Well I'm only pwning with him on my 4k smurf, right now i wouldn't dream of going mid with him on my main, especially after the nerf
I always go tranquils -> medallion -> solar crest/aghs. If i can get it early i'll definately go solar, if not i'll resort to aghs. A typical mid Visage game would be 8 min medallion, 14 min solar crest, 22 min aghs. I used to not build medallion at all and go for a 14 minute aghs but it's just too good now and I have gotten used to pressing the extra button. Atos is more of a snowball item, really good if you are like 10-0, got your solar + aghs up and your team is lacking lockdown, otherwise don't build it and go for the safe option aka AC, instead.
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Just had a game with him - the change in birds damage is amazing.
is it intentional that counterhelix doesn't damage them now or is that a bug?
he's going to be a regular ban and not just when drow is picked.