Tbh if you play unranked it's becoming a theme for parties to do a quick undying/gyro pick kind of annoying.
64% winrate in VHS ranked. He is even higher than 6.82a Spectre levels, so yeah definately gonna get nerfed. It's kinda like when Centaur got into Dota2.
it's nice that they made him not useless against a lot of heroes, but creeps and towers counting as a half hit on zombies as well is a little too much. When removing a way a hero is countered they should give him a nerf in the pack as well.
He wins lanes and pushes, but that's about all he does. He can't gank, can't scale well at all, decay costs too much and ulti is just a disgrace to ultis I think. Also I don't understand all the fuzz about him suddenly becoming OP. Zombies don't die to physical spells now so what? Most of the time you didn't even lane against heroes that kill them with spells. But his pickrate is still pretty low for such a high winrate hero so you can say he is only played in very high skill games.
"Most of the time you didn't even lane against heroes that kill them with spells."
Still annoying when a Bristleback can just passively kill all of your zombies or gargoyles with his quills. When people realize that Bristleback is no longer a hard counter to Undying his winrate might taper off a bit.
@sam
actually your first sentence is the only point that matters in current meta. early-game and mid-game pushes/kills decide the game's result now, and since undying is particularly strong in these, he gets his incredible winrate. either meta will change or undying gets his nerf.
undying is not OP, just this patch's tendencies highlighted his strentgh, and his weaknesses no longer matter this much. Not the undying, but his surrounding changed.
At least as far as I see it.
it's not only that Axe, bristle, tide, etc can't instakill all zombies anymore, but the zombie don't instantly die to creeps either or even the towers because of the 2 non-hero hit needed. (Sniper and troll were really strong against him too, but got nerfed a lot, so in pubs at least his winrate is huge because of those heroes having way lower wr).
The meta also didn't favour him last patch that much since most games went too late for him, but now with squishier t3s and t2s it's easier to end fast while he's still relevant.
OK, since you say he is to strong right now.
Then tell me how do you do in order to counter him? What picks? What lanes? What items? What game strategy?
Troll, Bristle and Gyro is a few examples of heroes that counter him badly before. I dont see why it would not work anymore.
in rankeds i just ignore him but ive lost a couple against him... the reason is more my teammates though so idc... its just annoying to play against it, especially when the fuckers dual or trilane offlane him to my safelane with woods support gg
Just dont go trilanes vs him or you'll get raped if the guy playing it is a descent player. If you let him get lvl 3 fast, you pretty much lost the lane and gave him double-tripple kill and you cant come back to it anymore or you'll feed even more. The only way to play vs this hero is to get AM and let him solo the lane, max mana burn and then he's just food. Also extremely well organized nuker trilanes can destroy him, but you wont see a lot of them in the pubs.
All in all, it's really annoying hero to play against, especially if the players knows his hero well.
last game i lost to zombie i think, i had a necro afk ancients that went for midas (reddit shit) and sk woods (20 min dagger uncontested) ez loss!!!!!! while i had to play against a trilane. And i got lp right after the game, best shit ever! needless to say even with this trash mmr i have right now, it was the highest....
I think undyings ulti can be insane actually, especially when combined with another ulti. Adding 40 % odd extra damage to wds ult is incredible...
In my opinion though, He is so easily countered unless you have a team that really suits him
I don't understand how he has over 60 % win rate..
The shame about undy's ulti is that elder titan's aura (a basic ability) can often do just as much or more bonus damage, as it's way easier to keep on your enemies thanks to his spirit that can be cast from range. His tombstone is a lot more insane than his ultimate (until late game of course).
I wonder if his win rate will go down when people get better at dealing with him?
is gyro a good counter now?
does axe still counter him, his spins don't kill zombies, but then again more zombies = more spins.
do you just all focus the tomb stone as 5 for a second to kill it fast, or do you ignore it, or do you just back off like cow heard when tomb stone is down.
do zombies count for eco slam. if they do? do you pick shaker and brood and make 100 zombies fight 20 spiders, then slam when tomb gets dropped?
Just don't feed him kills and you will be fine. He is a terrible farmer and if he can't get items he can easily get focused down.
HAAARRR ! FFFLLLLLLGRRRR HHAAAARR HARRR !! GRAAAAAAAAAAA!! BLUUUPPPPPGRRAAAA!GBRAHHA BJHRHAAAARRRRRRRRRRR AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG !! FLAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Honestly I think he takes advantage of stupidity in players. I have had a couple bad games where people knew what they were doing and would stand still hitting the tombstone leaving me out in the open with nothing but decay to keep me up. Kill the tombstone, don't run and undying becomes pretty average.
Yeah, but also with soul rip sometimes that tombstone doesn´t go down so easy! I had it happen in my last game http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1452956680
The team focused the tombstone a few times so I just soul-ripped it back up to health and they still died.
One of the most broken heroes in Dota's history. Sniper & Troll were balanced compared to current Undying.
He just wins early team fights and this patch is geared to that. Also the zombie buff makes things easier.
Definetely not op, just overrated. I would say Zeus/Lina are more op than Undying.
looks broken to me ^^
edit: but you need to yell at your teammates that they have to push like retarded.. otherwise they go jungling and shit
Ironically he has become a good counter to Bristle because he now has to turn and kill the zombies rather than just run away spamming W. He needs a small nerf but def. not super OP
Just pick Gyro, dodge his lane and just win dota2. Pretty simple.
Go Gyro offlane, with +1 unless you're 1v1 where gyro beats most heroes offlane
He just wins games in 20 minutes, nothing special guys.
TBH he was already very strong before but 6.84 just removed all direct counters to him. He is getting picked more and more all the time (already #1 in VH ranked) and soon everyone will feel the plague.
Hero has been #2 winrate last patch and got buffed, of course it is OP. Tombstone is extremely broken, undying is invulnerable for the first 20 minutes of the game.
That being said, people need to adapt and they start doing it. Having a dual lane or a trilane against Undying is asking to lose.
With a solo lane it is manageable.
^---most the games I see undying it is never him alone.
Always a dual lane or aggressive tri lane.
![[Lk].Zano](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/b9/b98e01ce6ef4a5e926a44cdd1564d0e8e5fbfa36_full.jpg "[Lk].Zano")
Now that I think about it. Any discussion about the hero is kind of pointless. "IS UNDYING A CANDIDATE TO BE NERFED?" is the question of the topic and we all know what happens when one hits the forbidden 60 number. OP or not :P
Let's see how long it will take, I actually really enjoyed playing Undying before this patch and it's feeling a bit dirty picking him, even if it's just in my friends' lobbys.
the most op hero was super old lycan that jungled up like 4 min vlads and fast necro book and win games
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Personally, I disagree with the assumption that he's op in this meta. Thoughts? Post your rationales pls