well you probably won't win much with that build, look for some of the other tb threads on here, built s&y/manta, skadi, butterfly. And definitely max meta sooner.
S&Y is kinda irrelevant IMO since Manta feels more needed, and Skadi already gives a slow, and I WAS planning on getting Skadi and Butterfly both, but the team wanted to take advantage of the early push advantage we had cause none of them picked good pushers, just to avoid a late-game Riki.
Cause if Riki gets Abyssal, it feels super hard to kill him since then he can just smoke, then use the active ability stun and rape the hardest carry just so people can't fight back.
It really depends on the game as to whether you go SnY or Manta.
"manta is more expensive. more importantly it doesn't come in chunks like s&y does. it doesn't give you any lock down either even if it gives you more dps.
is it better in 6 slots tb? without a doubt. is it better as first item? completely arguable.
going smth like pms treads drums s&y is absolutely fine on tb. "
- xan
Not that i started manta only cause the killing power of tb was so low with the nerf of ms, that it became a non sens to try to hope for the maim.
But now, tb is weak. in first place, the nerf of tb should have been weaker than the first one, aka only rescale on reflection (and hell, it got nerfed cause we had tons of morron running solo into tb versus the triple, not even for the fact of the one point wonder !!!!).
At that point it was already too much albeit the streng nerf was still pretty insignificant, so we could have called him balanced.
And then he got nerfed several time, and the 2 last one, even under the ground, one of the biggest nerf of the whole dota history.
He is currently in top 5 weakest hero, and countrary to undershit like lone druid he isnt even situational (well he is, you can pick tb if enemy has antimage, period)
I don't see how TB is weak, he seems pretty strong after 2-3 core items, unlike others I've played, like Alchemist, Druid, etc.
Then again, it might just be the skill bracket, or what I'm fighting inb4 someone comments on the build of my last match
I also had Basher and Butterfly, but Dusa bought a Rapier, I killed her, took it, raped their top lane, then went bottom with Aegis and Rapier, took their tower and a few heroes, died, bought back, boots of travelled, tried to stop him, he got into his base, I backed off and bashed their bottom rax as the creeps demolished their ancient and we won, so I was technically 6-slotted.
It's your skill bracket. You fail to understand the game as matrice do, so you just don't see huge disadvatages Terrorblade has.
He's still strong if given time, but any carry is strong if he has a lot of time to farm up items.
Also, his laning phase is terrible now. He's easy to kill, and he's pretty squishy at start.
Not to mention, people at 2k/3k and even higher play him the wrong way, eg: going for 1st item Helm of Domi, then proceeds to buys stupid stuff like Rush for manta and such.
I even saw TB with naked Travel/Dominator..
Hero is hard to play in any decent MMR, might be op at rly LOW tiers of dota like sub 2k, low 2k, and 2400+ MMR.
At any average MMR like 2800-3400 range, TB will most of the time will be a food to the rest of enemy team.
Even if it is the skill bracket, I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to do any of the things you've described.
What even makes people think any of that is remotely a good idea? Especially at higher MMR's?
Just to be honest with you, if you're wondering about it, you're in the same boat as me.
So, welcome, since i'm not even that high in terms of mmr(I'm not even close to 5k bracket, so what i'm talking about is true)
Honest question, is Radiance even worth getting on Terrorblade? Cause I got Radiance instead of something like Daedalus, to see how it'd work.
It's great for cuting down the lanes, increasing farm speed and such things.
Most of the time, you won't need it, since TB already farms very fast if playing properly, so, no, skip it.
I can't stress enough how radiance is bad in low-tier games, since you'll just rush it and keep dying most of the time.
And if you get lucky and not die, you wont be able to get it in time, so, again, no.
Just skip radiance, and if you rly love tb, go for cost- effective items like drums into s-y before @ 20 min mark and try to end game as soon as possible.
Later on, you can even sell sange and go for manta if needed(but I just don't see a reason for doing so), keep s y, go for skadi, pick up later daedalus, go buter, stack skadi, stack buter if needed and so on.
Well, my INTENDED build was gonna be Treads, Poor Man's Shield, Dominator so I can just jungle and get off the lane so another carry can farm it. Get a Basher, then Manta, Radiance for speed pushing the lanes and meh damage boost and not getting Sange and Yasha since it'd just slow down my other cores and there's no point praying for a Maim. Then just Skadi, Butterfly and Basher into Abyssal.
but yeah, I can see how Radiance can not really be useful.
Getting early dominator is bad. I used to built it like 5 months ago, and I realised how bad it is actually.
TB needs HP/DMG/stat builds. Not lifesteal. It can be situational, but I hardly doubt you'll need to think about lifesteal on TB on your skill-range.
Yeah, it's easier to deal with farm if you tank your creeps in order to farm(woods) so I guess it can work on low-tier because of that, and i'm not sure will lanes/woods will be contested in your tier, so, if it works for you, go then.
But it will work much better even it lower tiers if you instead of wasting 2k gold for dominator, you go Sange&Yasha into skadi build, and before that you get PMS-PT-DRUMS..
I still don't see the point of Sange and Yasha, I don't find it useful on TB cause you're pretty much praying for a maim. And that has less chance of hitting than a Basher stun. I also don't see the point of Drums, TB already gets a good amount of attack speed from Treads, and a good movement boost from Manta. And I already get him health and DPS with some stats from Basher and Manta both and the Helm just gives early armor and regen. I don't see the point of dawdling around, stalling a core with something like Drums when you already got damage block and some agility from PMS, stats from Treads, and Lifesteal, small damage boost and early-grade armor and regen from Dominator and can just farm away without ever needing to go to base.
Feel free to try and enlighten me though, cause the stats argument doesn't really apply IMO, I already get stats from Treads, PMS and Dominator as I build into a Basher and Manta. And Dominating an Alpha Wolf is nice too, free damage to farm faster with and maybe dominate one of those hard camp Troll guys for their net for a disable.
^better hp, comes in small, functional parts, higher ms, makes the main hero stronger
basher is a pretty underwhelming item on tb
pms doesnt really do much work thanks to his already high armour, you're better off getting a bracer if you really want that little bit of tankiness
dominator is really underwhelming because it slows down your farm, only viable for soloing roshan
if you build the items i do currently you'll average 900 gpm on TB if uncontested in laning stage assuming you have any idea of how to farm
"I still don't see the point of Sange and Yasha, I don't find it useful on TB cause you're pretty much praying for a maim. And that has less chance of hitting than a Basher stun"
It's not about maim. You can slow with your 1st later-on, it's pretty good slow. Sange+Yasha is an extremly early-game item that peak at @ 20-25 min game in my opinion.
Having sange and yasha on TB will just be much better then having: Basher+Dominator.
The amount of attack speed, HP, dmg, ms etc you'll get with S+Y can't be compared with Basher+domi build.. It's just bad.. Use common sense.
Keep in MIND I'm talking about EARLY game advantage S+y can give you compared to dominator+Basher build.
With early dominator, you're forced to FARM, and pray your team will WAIT for you.
With early S+Y, you can eaither FARM or MAN FIGHT, and actually be USEFULL for your team, and it MEANS a lot if you're in LOW tier MMR, because the more time you take for your precious FARM, the more you RISK to lose the game actually, if they start to go on CHAIN feed.
"I also don't see the point of Drums, TB already gets a good amount of attack speed from Treads, and a good movement boost from Manta. "
It's not about attack speed at all. It's about HP/mana/ms/dmg compared to an early YASHA.
Drums is just much better to get, after PT compared to yasha most of the time, since yasha gives you ZERO hp(tb needs hp), and you'll probalby get yasha after rushing for dominator which is BAD because you'll be glass fucking canon.
Combine early drums (10 min mark) with S+Y, you can actually be usefull with tb.
"nd I already get him health and DPS with some stats from Basher and Manta both and the Helm just gives early armor and regen. "
You pretty much get everything that tb doesnt need, and you dont get anything at all that tb needs, or you get it too late.
You go:
Helm of dominator cuz lifesteal armor and HP regen?
TB ALREADY got tons of armor, nice above average HP regen, and gives ZERO fucks about lifesteal most of the time.
You go BASHER on TB to BASH people, while he gives ZERO fuck most of the time about it(it can be sit. item if you're planing to fight in meele for and planing to go for abysal, but since you won't be able to acumulate that amount of farm as TB ANYWAY, why bother going for situational item on glass canon TB?)
"I don't see the point of dawdling around, stalling a core with something like Drums when you already got damage block and some agility from PMS, stats from Treads, and Lifesteal, small damage boost and early-grade armor and regen from Dominator and can just farm away without ever needing to go to base."
First, TB is more rat-doto carry, most of the time he won't be able to carry you to the victory. Sec, PMS isn't Vanguard. It's not about dmg block later, it's about laning-phase dmg block, where you can block dmg of creeps(if you pull agro), or if you tend to manfight and trade hits with TB on lane, which I doubt you do anyway...
"Feel free to try and enlighten me though, cause the stats argument doesn't really apply IMO, I already get stats from Treads, PMS and Dominator as I build into a Basher and Manta. And Dominating an Alpha Wolf is nice too, free damage to farm faster with and maybe dominate one of those hard camp Troll guys for their net for a disable."
I tried. But I doubt you'll understand what I'm talking about, since you already belive you got yourself your way to go.
It's okay, I understand that you think you're doing GREAT with your build because it wins you games in your tier.
But, if you want to get better, then take advices. Killing shitty carry and brain damaged supports with dominator-basher-manta build is possible, but why bother building that then so?
Just get Madness-blink-lvl5 dagon and you'll pretty much archive the same thing.
If you want just to play Dota casualy, and not giving a fuck about improving, why do you come here and ask for help in the first place?
People are trying to help you, and you're acting kinda arogant and trying to argue about how good is rushing dominator into basher into manta on hero that's glass canon and have no escape.
Zenoth, don't wanna offend you, but, rly?
Do you really belive he has idea how tb's supposed to farm? Comparing your terroblade and his is like comparing apples to oranges.
It's that stupid, you know. Even I can't understand your build, what makes you think he'll be able to understand it?
He'll probably forget to use diffusal when it needs to be used, he'll probably average at 5cs/min at his best, etc.
I think he needs advices like mine, not like yours.
Your Terroblade is just much more advanced, your mehanics, farming ability, micro, macro is way ahead, you can't understand that he doesnt understand what are you talking about.
If you dont wanna take any advices why did you make this thread. No, he is completely shit right now, especially with your build.
Lel zenoth. BoTs and diffu are just for farming purposes, and splitpushing, and the 35 agi? I used to play smth like this in dota 1
The thing is tb can only split push now, considering how weak he is.
but they nerfed even that :(
Edit: i missed that basher, how the hell is a single tb going to fight in mele form
@Matrice I don't use just one, I tend to Conjure Image, then run at them, get the bash, reflection and kill the thing I'm attacking, tends to work unless it's PA, cause evasion 2stronk.
@Shred I'm sure it works better in the higher stuff and he's a rat carry like NP, but unfortunately, contrary to popular belief, people in the potato bracket WILL notice a person pushing their lane, taking their towers and focus him down first, then go back to doing their stupid standoff shit on mid. So I had to go for fighting power since the team wouldn't make a move and keep them distracted enough for a rat plan.
you dont need a team to rat, just need to hide in trees or tp to new lane every time they come to kill you
low skilled players cant handle rat at all
I just don't understand what makes you think you'll deal more DPS to someone with:
Dominator + Basher
Instead with: S+Y+Drums.
It's almost the same cost, and it's way, way more effective to go drums s y build
Thats not fighting power. Shred suggested getting aquila drums SnY if you want to fight. Your build is literally im useless for 30 min at your farm rate probably
^
Pretty much. :D
Sadly he doesnt realise if he can rekt them with his build he'd probably be able to do it much better with mine.
I'm even interested in proving him I'm right, if he wants to give me his acc to play Terroblade games(couple of them, before I get bored).
Why are you valuing manta so highly?
Manta dmg 26, sy dmg 32
manta ias 41, sy ias 32
manta 10 more int but sy 6 more str
manta illusions, sy 6% more move speed and maim and 850 cheaper.
It basically comes down to two things, do you need manta to drop disables and do you want the illusions for 850g? I say no, I prefer more hp and move speed and the illusons cost a lot of mana and do practically no dmg without metamorphisis up.
Also TB is strong if left alone cus he still farms super fast and can get 6 slotted before enemy carries are 4 slotted, but in higher games you will get ganked more, have harder lanes etc. They'll come shut tb down hard early.
Whatever I'll try the drums thing.
Still don't see how I'm to farm jungle so someone else can farm lane without lifesteal tho.
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Cause yeah, I had a very meh game with him, that only was a win cause Riki was their strongest carry at the time and we destroyed him before pushing mid lane super hard and destroying their Ancient. But in a situation where if I played him better and smarter, would he even be good for the meta that's going right now?