General Discussionwho are the worst opponents of TA and TB

TA- Viper,Gyro
TB-Axe,OD,SD,Lina

what about ta vs storm? sandking???

TA does very well against Storm Spirit especially past level two. Storm zones melee out with static remnant but Lanaya will laugh it off with Refraction, and have superior damage that can splash on Storm. Ta will more likely reach level 6 before Storm, which means she can get a quick kill on storm if he gets just slightly out of position.

People that can take out illusions quickly tend to counter Terrorblade. Helps if they can also avoid sunder range

TA - razor obviously
TB - lion

what about pudge for ta [pls no flame :/]

TA - viper, razor, bat, a good brew, a good pudge

once you learn how to play vs viper its not much of a hard counter actually

razor destroys TA

TB- LC

i find it easier to fight razor than viper as a ta. oh and 1 more. hard counter for TA. axe

brew, razor, viper, ember, axe

^ I was expecting you to say "the 3k players playing them."

those heroes i listed counter TA.
razor and brew rape TA early game

As tb I really have problem against these heroes
Axe
Sniper
Troll
Sand king
Tinker

Assuming you mean just worst to play against overall. Laning, midgame, lategame.

TA-
1. Viper. A good viper player is by far the hardest thing to play against as TA, not saying it cant be done though. Needs rotations by your supports, preferably stunners. Max meld, rush up and kill him with a stun-gank. Meld can also disjoint his poison-chase or his ulti if you´re in trouble.
2. Huskar. Huskar is a pain for TA all game long. Laning against a good husk is almost as hard as viper, luckily he wont slow you at all, so you can just rush him very easily, and his low armour value makes him quite easy to kill. If you ever get that close.
If a husk rushes halbeard, you´re in for a bad game.
3 Batrider. Actually not as hard to lane against as people think, I´ve played this matchup plenty of times, good positioning and psiblades and you will be fine. Midgame is harder though, he will eat your refractions and you almost always need to invest in bkb early.
4 Warlock. A lot of people would not put him this high, but a WL who knows what he's doing messes you up. Upheaval is such a good spell vs TA, fatal bonds always nice against aggressive heroes, shadow-word is of course refraction-munching and annoying, and his ulti is a very nice way to quickly kill TA with any other stuns nearby.
5 Razor. This guy can be so frustrating. Fast hero, high armour, and plenty of damagesources to burn refractions. On top of that, steals your damage. Razor is one of those *has to be stunned if you want to kill him* type of heroes for TA, and stunning Razor is rarely a nice thing to do due to 3rd skill.
6 Axe. Axe messes you up, if he ever gets the jump on you+1 then you´re in trouble, +40 armour makes him so tanky that not even TA attacks will bring him low, his battlehunger is amazing at killing refractioncharges, and his ulti goes THROUGH refraction (same as grave). The only reason he's not higher up is because people dont play him that often against TA.
If he comes to your lane-> Attack creeps, make sure to psiblade him instead of targeting him. This deals more damage, and doesn't proc his counter-helix.

Honourable mentions of shitty heroes for TA: Venomancer, Brewmaster, Earth Spirit (due to his ability to save teammates primarily)

Note: this is just from my experience, I do have more than 400 games on TA at 6k+ MMR , and these are the most challenging heroes that I'm facing. I'm sure experience may vary due to where you play.

Waga, how would you build a PA mid and play it?

TB's weakness, in my opinion, is Riki.

Edit: and Axe. The rest I can handle.

I'd say a Mjolnir counters TB well.

@Critalus
Then tb buys gem and riki can't get close anymore and as bonus, he clears all your wards with illusions. I find Lion, Lina and OD more annoying then invisible heroes, because they force you to get bkb / linken.

lion rhasta tinker od
other heroes are more or less manageable

no one mentioned Venomancer destroys TA...

he doesnt though, sting doesnt remove refraction anymore (although last time level 2 did)

and u can spill with wards

I'm quite suprised no one mentioned slark, slark really owns ta and his extremely mobile if ta decides to run.

TB:
LC is a huge pain
Bounty is annoying if you're jungling
OD could be bad, haven't played the matchup

slark gets rekt by templar, what are you talking about. just go 2/2/1 and slark gonna lose 75% of his life within a meld and a normal hit.

@6_din_49
I'm talking about Split push TB vs Riki and from my experience, gem doesn't do it.

the worst opponent is surely ZEUS! i have 100% win against him as zeus.

From my experience as TA

-mostly what waga said, although personally I feel that Viper is not as bad as Razor, and while Huskar counters TA in lane, TA actually counter Huskar mid-game, easily taking him down with his low armour and useless magic resistance

-Jakiro counters TA amazingly well, TA will not be able to find any farm whatsoever, while losing runes and losing the tower very early. Jakiro is innately tanky, has DoTs, slows your attack speed to the extent he can walk out of Meld range, and one euls combo mid-game bursts you down from full.

-Earthspirit actually fares decently in lane; he will lose early but just spamming all his rocks at 6 practically guarantees a kill on you. mid game he is a pain in the ass

-slark doesn't do too badly in lane against TA, and can punish TA very easily. mid-game he is a pain in the ass overall

For TB

-riki is actually great at stopping your farm early-mid; he is one of the few cases where i will rush an early BKB even for a split-pushing build. overall pain in the ass to play against

-qw invoker with fast orchid is another horrible piece of shit to fight against because he can catch you again and again rather easily

For TB: Meepo with bot/ perma invis heroes + global (zeus + riki for example)

@Zenoth I thought the same way against Husk as you, until I played against someone who knew how to play Husk. #Gotrekt

@Waga how much MMR you lost/climbed with All hero Challenge?

The two guys I have most trouble with on TB are earthshaker and bloodseeker.

Bloodseeker cus I like to jungle TB and it requires letting your health drop a ton so he will force you out of jungle. And then late when pushing towers, if he tp's and ruptures you, you can't run. If it's only blood no big deal, tp out or fight him but usually a couple people tp and one always has a disable. A lot of bloods rush blade mail now which also makes him difficult to fight 1v1 and blood in general is a pub stomper, always seems like he is snowballing in my games while everyone feeds him so he's just tough to deal with all around.

Earthshaker cus with a blink and fissure he can always catch you and again, multiple tps, fissure, gang raped. Plus his ult on a creep wave and your two illusions does a shitload of damage.

Edit: Invoker can suck too cus that damn tornado has so much range. Sometimes a blink shadow shaman can be bad as he'll blink, hex, shackle while he waits for backup. In general the guys who can disable you from a distance are trouble for me, hard when they tp in out of vision and blink on me.

Hey TA mainers guys, about Viper countering TA. Do you think he counters her that much in lane? Because I've seen many TA players who just shrug it off and win their lane anyway. I've seen Viper countering TA harder by ignoring the mid lane and instead farm in safelane while possibly getting a kill or two on the offlaner(s) with a decent support and rushing an extra fast Mek to force fights a TA will not be prepared for yet, but then again I play in a far lower bracket.

But anyway, is that a more legit way to counter her?

Viper counters TA in lane cause the concept of the hero is to win the lane he is put at. Aside from that, he also burns refraction out quickly, he slows both your MS and AS (and all TA dmg comes from right click) and with his ult (if you don't dodge it) ur basically dead.

BUT it can be reverted if you bottle-crow constantly and perhaps max Meld (although DragonFist still max refraction). If you reach lv6 before Viper you can kill him with your trap and Meld hits (you'll have phase boots by that point). But in mid game fights he is a pain in the ass, usually very tanky with aghs and mek, he can kite you easily with his slows and range advantage.

But for me the annoying thing about this match up is that if you don't use your Refraction, you'll be outcs'd by Viper (due to his 2nd skill), and if you do and your psi blades hit him, you lose your Refraction, which means he will be able to harass and zone you out. Pretty lame

Viper is going to have an upper hand in lane but once the teamfighting starts, he is very susceptible to the minus armor and the physical burst damage.
I think the biggest way to counter TA is to pick a venomancer or ogre magi (who is recieving rediculous buffs in this patch) and get a good DOT slow on her to roam on and kill her on the mid. Otherwise, Batrider is always a safe full-stop.

^^ you also need to be close enough to the creep wave to last hit that he can just orb walk the fuck out of you, your refraction charges are gone psi blade hits or not.

Thanks for the answers. Viper is so much pain in the ass for every hero i play. Maybe every hero there exists, he is so anoying. Not that he is imposiple to play against, its that all of his spells make me throw my keyboard away.

It's now anyone who buys Urn.

Pheonix. DOT everywhere, insane damage output, can't be Meld'd while under birds, and if you get that close for meld you're guaranteed to be affected.

Then Pheonix just runs (not even fly) out of your pathetically short early game range (or even late game range) and your meld bonus damage gets canceled.

Can fly away from your traps, can supernova in any form of danger you can provide alone.

Yeah, why has he not been mentioned yet?