General DiscussionANOTHER Spectre Vanguard Thread (with Strawpoll)

Why strawpoll this?

It all comes down to situation, so you can't ask for something that won't be consistent.

Vanguard allows for aggressive play because vangaurd+dispersion = unkillable in early stages of the game.
Vanguard let's you do the most important thing as a hardcarry: Not die

I've talked so much about Vanguard Spectre thruout my life that I will let it be to the propesionals.

Don't know about Dorkly, but I think you are talking about Wink in that last point.

No.
I tend to go for PMS+Drum path..

drum spec is as boring as vang spec . try mek and sange instead for early tankyness

@Gaza
I understand the early aggression and Vanguard, would you get a Radiance after because from what I see people use it as a farming item as oppose to an aggressive item.

Also does the same thing you said apply to Axe as well? I see him getting other items like Blink and Blademail. And by the time he has those two items, the Vanguard becomes less effective

@Zano

[Img]http://i.imgur.com/69rlwPY.png[/img]

its viable, but you should get it real quick, what i see is a spectre building a vanguard 25 mins into the game... thats awful
but if you do it in 10 mins or something like that its way to go d00d

!support dorkly

ill go with PMS and ring of health and probably you can build refresher later on

Lol, I thought that Dorkly post was him mocking Wink and his anti-vanguard ways :P

what hurts me the most is purge defending vanguard on riki

vanguard = trash item unless you are BB/Axe getting it in sub-10 mins

http://dotabuff.com/matches/792034199

I had to go vangard to deal with the fact that Melody likes to feed alot in lane and I needed to deal with the harassment of a fed clockwerk

people who say vangard is a useless item do not understand how complex dota is.

mek spec is better

Sampson I think Melody was just creating space.

spectre+ mekansm

True I did not have to deal with that much harassment while Melody was distracting clock with free kills

low mmrs vangaurd is ok but rushing a radiance is better at higher levels

Guy vanguard is the best item, build it on everyone : spectre, antimage, timbersaw, slardar, pudge, invoker, meepo, kunkka, juggernaut, the list goes on!!! This is indeed the best item of choice in any matchup at any level of skill. Get vanguard, win games.

check my spec games, but this is my rule of thumb:

- start w/ 1 set of tangoes and 1 healing potion, quelling blade, 2 branches
- skill build: max disperse and dagger before desolate

You can go 4 ways with Spectre depending on several factors:
1. go for Vanguard

lane scenario: against heroes who harasses you every now and then
- your goal is to buy RoH as soon as possible so you have the capability to stay lane and farm especially when your supports start to leave you for ganks
- Typically, getting that 1.1k Vit Booster is a bit tough during the early laning stages, but if you somehow can do it, you can rush complete the Vanguard.
- What happens most of the time is I buy brown boots --> Magic Stick --> TP because of the expected lane rotations and enemy ganks. I usually complete my Vanguard when I start jungling already.

2. go for Drums

lane scenario: against heroes who has good burst damage / if you feel the enemy can kill you during the laning stage
- bracer --> Magic Stick --> Brown Boots --> Robe of the Magi
- I usually complete the drums when I start to jungle.
- Then I go for Phase Boots

3. go for Midas

lane scenario: tri lane against a solo/offlane where I get to last hit all the creeps
- I usually get this from 6-8 minutes

4. go for early Relic
- don't ever do this.. better go for Midas first because it ensures you that you can eventually have that Relic maybe between 20-30 minute mark.
- I have lost a lot of Spectre pub games because of wanting to rush that relic. It left me very vulnerable and unuseful for the 1st 20 minutes

5. go for Phase Boots

lane scenario: if you're able to farm w/o getting harassed by the enemy too much

- I usually buy Blades of Attack --> Blades of Attack --> Phase Boots since this will help me take the last hit/deny easily

This is how I basically decide on which path my Spectre will go each and every game.
Of course, the main assumption here is that I'm playing in a ~4k MMR solo pub game

People need to tell me how they get the mana to sustain mek on spectre?

@blackxargon, it's not possible to buy all those starting items with normal starting gold, you have to drop quel blade.

Vanguard isn't just useful against harassment in lane, it's also good if you are going to fight early and ult -> gank/dive people. You need to look at your lineup and thiers. If you have like a bloodseeker middle then expect some roaming ganks which you should ult into and be a part of. Bloodseeker ruptures under a tower, with vanguard you can so easily ult in there for a kill and tank the dmg.

oops.. mybad, there should not be a stout shield there :)

maxing desolate is more useful as it loses a good amount of its effectiveness as the game goes on

Vanguard is fine if getting it makes you immune to your lane opponents. Creeps deal nothing, heroes do basically nothing if they have weak autos. If they're all magic dmg, or high dmg so even with vanguard you take too much, skip it.

I agree with Sleave. I used to go max dispersion first to ensure survival, but lately I've been taking advantage of maxing desolate first and dealing really good dmg with ulti, swap in, auto down ppl for early kills. Maxed desolate on early ults deals tons when ppl have such low hp pools.

wtf would you max dispersion ? non sense in any game scenario

I agree, the first point in dispersion is pretty big but the relative returns after that are small. First point is ~11% increase in effective hp, next point is only 50% more of that for ~16%, next is only 33% more for ~21% according to dota wiki. It's like maxing feast in lane on lifestealer, diminishing returns. Desolate on the other hand lets you haunt in for pickoffs with zero dmg items. I usually go dagger, dispersion, dagger, then max desolate with 1 point in haunt.

If I was playing a pub game in a tri-lane vs offlane scenario and I'm with supports who can really zone out offlaners then maybe I'll consider maxing desolate.

But most of the time, in 4k MMR pub games, your allies start a fight they can't win, farm a lane very susceptible to ganks, clash w/o synergy, no wards, supports stealing farm, etc..

The general idea with dispersion is being able to hold my lane so that I can farm.

But maybe as I climb up the MMR ladder, things will start to change.

ROLF

I was mocking Wink

^
From your mockery, a cult was born.

FOLLOW ME PUPPETS

Poll agrees with me, suck it vanguard buyers!

TIME TO BURN SOME FUCKERS