Pretty good observation in my honest opinion. The laning (a.k.a. stacking and roaming that you mentioned) is sometimes, or rather, most of the time, detrimental to your own team. In my potato sub 4k bracket, pub supports just won't do with just brown boots, some gg branches and wards fifteen minutes in, simply because the overall teamwork is lacking. Unless I'm stacking with 4 other people of course. The best example to that are TPs. In pro games, if anyone dives under the tower, the TP's come almost immediately, while in pubs they come really late, if at all.
Just my two cents.
Pub games, no communication ( 99 % of time )
Pro scene, insane communication.
Also what Sam said
It also comes from the fact that pros know each other inside and out, the safe lane carry knows he doesn't need the support all the time because the second he needs him he'll be there, things like that make a huge difference.
Pro games: Consistent (In a way, communcation)
Pub games: Inconsistent (Communication in some games, none in else. People doesn't share the same goal)
its way different playing with a teammate for years and suddenly getting a random guy who you don't have a fuck of who he is and asking him to play a coordination-needed game like doto
Rosh is a huge difference too. Teams actively look to rosh and actively look to defend it. In pub games rosh is an afterthought.
Also weird, dire has dominated all the games I've watched. Actually I think they won all of them and in all of them radiant never got rosh. Rosh can be a big advantage if you use it.
@Fnatic pls dont disband :(
"Pub games = only 1 support. Pro games = 2 supports."
Yeah, lets count supports for team DK...
http://dotabuff.com/matches/770569057
Honestly, I don't see any difference between this pro game and average pub game. =)
pub games = supports sitting in lane spinning around doing jack shit
pro games = supports actually doing their job (which is why u rarely see them in lane)
@Soultrap You don't have a brain do you? Ah why am I even talking? I remember you weren't even above 3k.
Ganks? First blood on 7 minutes by Void chronosphere + very little help from Bane. Second kill for EG at minute 16 by Void + chrono again.
I think if Mirana stands in lane and harass she can do more than 1,3k damage.
They might run something like a 2 1 2 occassionally. But it's not clear since in pro games supports tend to rotate a lot, thus, at one time is 3 1 1, and the next minute is 1 2 2, because one support went mid to help zone out the enemy and the other went to help the hardlaner get exp. IMO the biggest difference between pro games and pubs is the teamwork aspect. In pro games, teams are more important than individual skill and the players know each other well and all have a common goal.
Teamwork? Maybe you just didn't notice good things that your teammates do?
From my last game hour ago.
Zero teamwork? =)
The reason 2/1/2 lanes are rare (but in fact they do happen, C9 got raped by a Tree/dazzle lane) is because tri- lanes are preferred. Getting fast levels on a off lane hero while securing your carries farm is generally better.
The thing you are missing is that while the safe lane tri-lane may appear to be a roaming support and a jungler, the reality is the moment their safe lane carry is threatened by the offlaner, the team co-ordination is there to instantly come in and take a dump on the off laner.
The reason the supports stay out of lane is because that would take XP from their carry.
I would say support items is a very interesting difference. Most pro supports dont get much of anything unless their hero requires it (es blink). For the most parts you wont see a support with many big items because they really let the carries get all the farm and I mean all the farm. Supports in pubs are too concerned with their items, but pros know they only need basic items and their carries need big items.
@Chico
I think you should rework that to pro supports know they can get away with basic items (with proper positioning and everything). Most pub supports (and I am guilty of this at times as well, obviously), don't know when to rotate, when to take free lanes, when to gank, when to free up space for carries.
@Soultrap
They had strategies and they failed. That's the difference between pub and pro games. Pubs generally don't have strategies to pull these off. I have known of pro teams before that have pulled off a support Juggernaut. (The Juggernaut needs to be paired with a good roaming support that preferably has 1 really good disable or 2 ok disables. The spin + that = sure kill. At least that's the idea). You're probably also a Naga/Alch/WK support naysayer, so whatever.
The bane mirana support duo has also been around for quite some time now, so I don't know where you're getting at. I assure you if
EG would for some reason appear in your games despite your rating, they'd stomp you with it.
You seem to be overly defending that pubs don't communicate/have team work when it is in fact generally true. Could it be because that you are also part of this problem?
@Pilot
Team DK picked Juggernaut + Skywrath Mage combo. Well, I understand the idea here: Jug and Sky both have ults that work great in chronosphere, but it puts too much pressure on Void, I guess. He must initiate perfectly every time, which is hard to do.
If Bane and Mirana used only to stack/pull jungle, I don't see how they can stomp anything.
I think those who say that there are no teamwork in pubs are simply blind. I noticed very good teamwork in almost every pub match I played. Not always my team though... =)
Honestly, I can be part of communication problem because:
1) I'm russian who often plays on EU servers;
2) I always solo queue;
3) I never use microphone.
The only positive thing about me is that I almost always play hard support (ward bitch) so I can't ruin much.
@Soultrap
They have early gank pressure as well. Long range slow followed up by a spin and additional damage from other sources can net kills if done correctly.
Bane and Mirana are mainly used to roam as a duo (if both are supports)
Basically it all depends on the execution (and I think you agree with that too), which is why the shit they do there would not work in most pub games.
I think there's teamwork in pubs too. There's teamwork displayed in every game. The only difference is the DEGREE of teamwork displayed in each game. Obviously you would expect a higher degree of teamwork in pro games vs pub games. (This goes for just about anything. Ex. Sports.)
C9 were running Bane/Mirana as a dual offlane to contest weak trilanes while the other lanes went Maximum Greed.
Pointing out pro games where a strat failed is different than pointing at a pub game. The pros had a strat, but nothing works every time. Most pub games have little cooperation outside of their lane partner (and sometimes not even that).
Just something regarding OP's 2 1 2 point; LGD yesterday, in game 1 against iG, they run a 2 1 2 setup and they crushed iG, one of the best teams.
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I'm new to watching the pro scene. I have literally only watched 5 pro games ever, all during this TI. Some have been awesome and entertaining like when EG knocked out Alliance, great game. Others not quite as cool like that last match where Newbee stomped Na'Vi. In another thread people were asking why we suck at dota and it was pointed out how pros do crazy shit. My friends who don't watch have been asking me can you learn anything watching pros? I said in a way, but the way the game is played on that level is so different, most of it doesn't apply and won't work in a pub game unless you have a 5 stack who can pull it off.
The main thing I have noticed is lanes. In the games I watched they never did a 212 setup or a trilane setup. In most games there was a dedicated jungler, like newbee used enchantress one time, EG used enigma once. All parties used a solo offlane. Both Na'vi games I watched they put wisp mid and wisp just stacked camps and kept mid regenerating. The other big thing is the safe lane support is NEVER in lane except to kill. They are basically pseudo junglers and roamers. They'll stack jungle, pull camps to bring lane back or roam and threaten or gank other lanes. It seemed extremely normal for a support to be level 3 when the safe lane carry is hitting 6.
Anyway I don't know if that observation helps me in normal play at all or not. First no support will ever lane like that, and if I play support and lane like that chances are my safelane carry will die or not farm lol. But it was a pretty striking difference, it's not just that pros play better, the entire strategy is different on that level.