General DiscussionJust an FYI

how is tinker a ratdota

How is he not, he can be many things in a game and among them split pushing and ratting is one of them. Its not his main use and perhaps not even the most effective way to use a tinker however he can and will push lanes out constantly and it's in the teams best interest to stop it.

Tinker with blink is still hard to catch, but its fun to run around tinkers march with blademail on :3

As Legion...

Blademail will prevent blink and do large amounts of damage to him...
Press the attack will dispel the laser he will cast knowing you will duel...
Overwhelming odds will find him in the trees and will again, prevent his blink

The main thing with Tinker is not ratdota. It's his almost unbreakable base defense (unless you have 15k or something gold lead) and super fast farming. And the fact that you can't even do anything about his farming unless you want to put 5 heroes together and follow him wherever he goes makes him even more annoying because his late game is super strong as well.

oh shit shitty shit i didnt know that blademail kill blink

yeah good luck fighting the tinker as legion when he just eblades dagon 5 you. A farmed tinker will beat a farmed legion and pretty much almost any hero, I cant believe how little he is abused in the competitive scene.

^ and this is precisely why legion is good, you can have a blink and boots by 7-8 minutes and then you simply hunt him...very few tinkers will have BoT's by that time and if you ward the ancients (if radiant) you're looking at 9-11 minute BoT's.

Like I said above looking at my legions games almost all of them have tinkers and the tinkers never really get farmed because I am so active in shutting him down, anyone who lets a tinker safely farm eblade and dagon probably deserved to lose.

Blademail will kill tinker if he eblades and dagons, press the attack dispels the eblade while you heal and use blademail....tinker will lose vs a legion the majority of the time and it more depends on the player.

legion is really really shit against tinker,u wouldn't be able to get a duel off him if he actually knows how to blink. U need something harder like a tryhard global strat (zeus or spectre) with clockwerk nyx to shut him down in pubs if he isn't retarded.

Tinkers can also go for bloodstone first against tryhard enemy teams and its funny to watch them fail.

@123

i think what havoc is trying to say is he shut downs tinker very early before he can get blink, e-blade or dagon

this might be a weird question but WHAT THE FUCK DOES FYI MEAN?

had to caps it

@miku

u can't get that fast blink dagger unless u're on the safelane and if u are playing the safe lane and u are doing this u are very likely to fall behind while the enemy carry and co rolls over ur team.

A jungling LC is like auto loss unless the enemy team is retarded

@123

I can get blink dagger at minimum of 11mins with phase basil.. But then again the one who said he shuts down tinker very early is havoc tyvm.

Does that mean 59% of my 3k shit tier bracket is retarded? o.O

FYI = for your information

Jungling LC isn't that bad if you manage to be active as possible, and preventing your mid (maily) from dying.
Obviously there's better option, but if you know how to play it as effectively as possible it's not as bad as you're trying to make it.

@miku yes

@123
Thnx for letting me know. But why pick on my junglegion.. .? Lmao i cant see anything where I dissed your tinker... Pls

tinker cant be "ratdota"

ratdota means you splitpush and avoid team fights, how does tinker avoid team fights lolz.
i get it, tinker uses marches and forces you to tp back (you dont have to really because he is not that type of hero to right click towers) but he is no way a "ratdota" hero

@Blunt "For your information"

@123 Jungling is always harder and slower but if your efficient (and as a jungler this is one thing I am ok at) you can get a blink by the time tinker has travels so until he gets that blink you can still keep killing him.

@Hatsune Note as well that I get travels in almost every game with LC, I will literally TP to the same creep wave tinker is farming or to a nearby tower or oncoming creep wave. Most of the time I will get him and I do think that the BoT's are the reason for the partial success with legion cause I can literally be anywhere at anytime picking up duels.

@Dangdang I honestly still partially max the first when jungling and sometimes rotate to mid to get kills, that shit does so much damage in a creep wave people aren't expecting it. Maxing second and first would seem the better option in jungle but you don't really need to max either, plus you can stack camps and clear them with your first skill.

@wave A lot of tinkers rat if they have been shut down or not as good with tinker and they use the time to get farm from other lanes so again, it's better if he's shut down.

Offlane LC http://dotabuff.com/matches/735684086
Jungle LC http://dotabuff.com/matches/729614990

how does tinker ratdota

yes he push lanes with marches
no he doesnt avoid team fights

when i play tinker and if i get shutdown, i start to turtle, ive seriously never heard of tinker being a ratdota hero

imo its more of a counterpush / push creep hero it doesn't destroy buildings.

@havoc wad mmr are u playing as offlane LC and it most probably worked because there was an np and u fought a dual lane who were retarded to lose to LC

Tinker is not a ratdota hero man

You cant even damage towers

Excessive heal, and I think the Abbadon was with me (can't remember but it's likely) party games are usually averaged around 4.2 depending on who I queue with sometimes higher or lower. I don't know why you are trying to find a reason as to why this isn't effective, it's something that works and it quite good vs a lot of heroes that are otherwise annoying or hard to deal with.

Lets say "the tinker was low skilled so of course it was easy" but equally if I can match a tinker to someone in my bracket equally can a 5K match someone in theirs using the same scenario.

@Wave I don't remember saying that tinkers primarily rats, and in fact my original post went like this "excessive amount of rat and in the flavor heroes like tinker etc". Rat heroes AND popular heroes like tinker, not "rat heroes like tinker".

Call it whatever you want tinker will be all around the map pushing lanes which is not something you should be comfortable letting him do.

EDIT: GOOD GOD YOU MORONS! READ!

The point is LC is a potato hero especially after his 3rd skill nerf and that he doesn't deal well with tinker at all, clockwerk is a far superior counter in any range of mmr games.

Should we start a petition to ban havoc for his low-level understanding of dota things?

I honestly don't mean to have a hostile tone, but are you intentionally trying to project the whole stepford/pleasantville creepiness that many of your photographs seem to give off?
You seem to represent an almost impossible-to-attain portrait of womanhood, and as a woman I honestly find many of your pictures unsettling. I swear, I'm an otherwise very confident person and I consider myself attractive, so I'm not trying to sound like some butthurt overweight girl who is whining about unattainable standards of beauty and femininity (this statement is directed towards the rest of reddit, not you). Can you provide some insight about your artistic vision and intentions?
I'm very very curious to hear what you have to say. Something about your photos makes me feel strangely depressed/inadequate and I'm alarmed by my own reaction. That being said, this is truly great work and I applaud your abilities.

@Havoc

Any "ratdota" hero, be it Lycan, Tinker, NP or whoever have the ability to either split push and avoid fights or to join team fights. If you argue that tinker isn't a rat, then you can just as easily argue that furion isn't a rat. Just comes down to how the hero is played.

OH MY LORD! Have any of you read anything.

1. Tinker is not a rat hero I never said he was built this way
2. I did say tinker has the ability to rat
3. I did also say that ratting with tinker (taking the first two points into consideration) is not the best way to play him.

What are people not getting? If you want to pick clockwerk and counter that is fine I am sharing what has worked exceptionally well for me (not just for tinker) and I would advise people to try it before they slam it. I understand that you're a tinker player and the fact that I am able to counter tinker effectively hurts you in some way (in the same way I defend axe) but Legion is good enough to counter tinker and a lot of other heroes.

I would venture to say that 9/10 times I am able to smash a tinker in the early game so hard that he never makes in into the late game with suitable items.

Going back to the original post I said...

"I know people have been complaining about the excessive amount of rat and in the flavor heroes like tinker etc. Ironically given that last patch was so wank for me this one has not been and the answer lies in anti-carries and anti-mid heroes namely doom and legion."

I also foresaw this and said as well...

"A lot of people may go into rants and excessive theory crafting but both doom and legion (with blinks not shadow blade is preferred) can really fuck up a tinkers day as well as other heroes like Furion, and Storm"

I was pretty much agreeing with you havoc.

More base regen like 50hp/sec instead of 5. Also should have a function that says, "if furion only at base with 0 allies, enable foritfy". Also unable to kill creeps that haven't pass their last tower.

I'm 5.8k and the point im telling u is that LC does not work well against tinker at all... and in most cases it often backfires heavily.

I appreciated that it may not work against a stack in SEA but it works fine for me in my bracket on the servers I play. LC (and doom) works for me against Tinker and as stated previously I have at least two pages of me wrecking tinker players, so evidence that it works just fine whereas you're simply theory crafting based on what you assume.

Since you seem to mainly rep Axe why aren't you posting about blink/taunt with axe?

Get nyx agaisnt tinker ;)

As much as I love Axe he doesn't cut it when it comes to Tinker. The difference is that if you're not around creeps, blink taunting a tinker solo isn't going to yield all that much as you will rely on subpar right clicks and the lucky spin. Unless you're going dagon or some other crazy burst item then it will only work with back-up from your team and that is where this is not so effective.

Legion has the ability to do it alone without the need of the team and you don't want to be relying/dragging them around the map with you as they can better put their attention to other things.

.....still I can see the charm.