Support ? what is that ?
Newbies like me need gold to do well :/ without gold i feed
It depends on whether or not I'm the solo support. If I'm not...
1. ward/courier, usually regen items + branches/ring of protection/save gold
2. ward defensive rune ward if against aggressive lane otherwise runeward thats more beneficial to mid (1 ward to offlaner)
3. i seldom stack camps for carries, double pull when possible (gold+deny enemy exp) and harass. if carry suffering hard, then no pulling
4. if no one takes it, then you take it? unless your mid asks for you to protect it
once you secure the safe lane carries farm PLZ for the love of all that is holy in this world leave the lane -_- Rotate between safe lane and mid ganking whichever lane you see a opening. Keep in mind not every gank will score a kill BUT every gank will up the pressure on their lane.
1. "usually regen items + branches/ring of protection/save gold"
care to elaborate? which regen items, how many branches, and in what situations do you get RoPs instead of branches, et cetera
2. k
3. doesn't matter who it's for. gold is gold regardless, it or could be the pull camp that you're stacking.
4. thats not what I asked
@sampson how do I know that I've secured my carry's farm and that he won't die to the offlaner if 1v1 if I leave.
and if he does die, do I go back to help, or try and make the other lanes win. especially when solo
@sampson thnx for the advice I used to stay in the lane sapping xp from the carry. How can you gank tho with a support like necro? or dazzle? or omni?
Im not sure if i'm the right person to tell you :/
But my support routine is
- Buy courier + observer ward early, sentry is situational
- Steal 1-2 last hit IF necessary to make sure i got flying courier at 3 mins
- To not suck exp from my carry
- Support him with tango if he need one
- Make sure i clear the wave by pulling to 2-3 camps without ruining lane equilibrium
- Distract enemy offlane to put attention to me and kite them as much as i can to give space to my lane carry
- If the offlane is out of position in lane and being too agressive, backdoor him and zone him out or kill him if possible
- If the offlane is leaving lane and moved to jungle, push the hell out of that lane and get the tower.
- Doing all of top above without feeding first blood or even worse 2 kills.
@Androgynous
Leave if your offlane is under-leveled and you feel that he's too weak to kill your safelane carry
Don't forget to leave "anti-gank" ward to your lane
If I insist going mid and resulting my carry die in process and let enemy offlane reach level 6 before my carry is
or even worse, died in mid while ganking mid, I'm a retard support, ez.
The way i pressure other lane is to not let my offlane and mid buy any support item, buy them sentry if necessary
@yfay
anyones advice is welcome, it's good to get the perspective of another player
how big of a priority is stacking to you, since you didn't mention much about it. do you try and get a stack off every minute, do you focus on getting the first minute stack?
you just need to zone out the offlane to give your safelane carry the level advantage, if he is 2 levels above the offlane and dies that is kinda his fault and you did your job. Keep in mind the whole situation changes if it is a aggro dual/ tri lane
first priority should always be your carries farm, usually after that what I see good supports do is stack then pick a lane to gank/zone out. (rinse and repeat) Always be ready to abandon your pulls if the other team puts pressure on your lane though.
You have to be flexible. For example, last game I played sniper safe lane with windranger as my support. For whatever reason the opposing team sent weaver and mirana. Together they can easily kill sniper or push him way back, even without arrow cus sniper is slow and doesn't have great range at lvl 1. Windranger starts pulling the small camp instead of helping in lane so I missed out at the first 3-4 creep waves at trying to get last hits.
Another example, I was spectre in safe lane vs a solo clockwerk. Support is silencer. Silencer chain stacks and pulls the camp. Clock can pretty much 1v1 anyone without a good disable at lvl 2-3 with battery assault + cogs. Silencer could've easily pushed him out of lane but he didn't. Dumb.
I think first priority always has to be secure free farm for your carry. Then pull camp. Pulling the camp is not really to get you gold or more xp, it's to control the lane when it gets too pushed up.
If the enemy team has 2 good roaming supports that would do great in a smoke gank I ward the ramp to the mid lane so my mid player can see the smoke pop:
- If I'm on radiant, I ward the radiant ancients
- If I'm on dire, I ward the top rune mid ramp (not the cliff ward)
When the creeps spawn I try to harass the enemy off lane until my carry is at least 1 level ahead. If we he is having trouble farming against a dual or tri lane, I stay in lane unless we are a tri lane.
If it's just a solo offlane and I have given my carry a level advantage, I'll leave my carry alone and go rotate, camp runes, stack jungle. When night is about to come, I go back to the safe lane to drop a lane ward so he doesn't get ganked since he is now alone.
IT'S FINE TO BE UNDERLEVELED AS A SUPPORT AS LONG AS YOUR CARRY IS GETTING SOLO EXP AND YOU ARE MAKING ROTATIONS/STACKING. Stop sitting in the lane leeching xp and thinking your job is denying creeps when they get below 50% hp. This shit loses the lane and you are being fucking useless.
It all depends on what hero are you playing, your playstyle and the lane composition. In a 2v2 you're gonna need more regen because you're gonna trade more hits. In a 2v1 or 3v1 you don't need much regen unless you're against a strong offlaner and your lane is terrible e.g. CM-Spec-Rubick against Bristleback.
Warding depends on your playstyle again and what do you want to acomplish with the vision. Is your mid rune dependant? Is the enemy mid rune dependant? Are you willing to contest the runes in order to secure them for your mid or negate them to the enemy mid? That's a basic guideline to put a runespot ward. On the other hand if you're against a strong duo lane (e.g. Bane/SD+ Mirana) or even aggresive trilane, I would recommend placing a ward into the jungle so you don't get combo'd to death. Sometimes it's better to leave your offlaner without vision if your mid needs one for the runes and you need one for the jungle. Offlaners can survive if played conservatively, that's why they're offlaners.
Warding spots, Dire:
1 and 2 are common places to ward the top rune. 1 gives less vision than 2, but it's much harder to deward.
3 is excellent for vision but blocks the hard camp next to it. If placed correctly, 4 gives you river vision, rune vision (i'm not sure about this) and its incredibly hard to deward.
5 is an offensive ward. You can see where the enemy offlaner is all the time and killing him is much easier. 6 is a defensive ward that prevents getting ganked, but its vision is somewhat limited. 7 and 8 are great defensive wards for vision, but they block the hard camp.
Warding spots, Radiant:
1, 2 and 3 give rune vision. 1 and 3 are harder to deward than 2 most of the times.
4 and 5 are defensive wards that give extremely good vision (4 even gives runespot vision), but they're too common and therefore they're easy to deward. 6 is an offensive ward similar to (5) in radiant.
7 and 8 are defensive wards. 7 is harder to deward, while 8 gives you better vision of the jungle.
Depending on your bracket, the enemy support might not give a shit about your wards and you can have better vision without worrying about getting dewarded, but depends on the situation (and the bracket you play).
Link to the album: http://imgur.com/a/Lt9BJ
Priorities depends on your carry needs and the lane composition.
2v1: Try to zone the enemy offlaner out. If he's too strong for you and your carry to handle him, deny xp from him by pulling (and TELL your carry to push, because if not your tower will be dead at 5 mins mark).
2v2: Are they pushing? If so, don't pull, your tower will be destroyed really fast. Is your carry pushing? Go pull -unless they have a super strong duolane that can insta kill your carry when you leave.
3v1: If you're trilaning I assume your teammates have some understanding of how a trilane works. If so, doing double and triple pulls should be easy, as well as zoning the enemy offlaner out.
2v3 or 3v3: Focus on staying alive and keeping your carry alive.
Can your carry (or any hero on your team) take advantage of jungle stacks? If so, do it. If you have a Spectre safelane and Invoker mid, don't waste your time. If you stack, let them know you did and force them to take it. Its dissapointing stacking for 10 minutes and then seeing the enemy taking all the farm because your alchemist didn't want to clear the camps out.
You should ask your teammates if anyone wants that rune. E.g. "DD bot, anyone?" Wait for response and if you get none after 10 secs, then take it/deny it and go back to your duties. Of course if you see an enemy coming you take it first.
"once you secure the safe lane carries farm"
Most supports have zero concept of that, just make that your first priority and you will win a lot of games. Can't tell you how many games I go safe lane and the support is off trying to gank mid, jungle, stack and pull and I'm getting raped by an offlane weaver or dual offlane or something.
i usually sit my butt in the lane stealing carries zp, then i start flaming the noob chz he missed a lh
My items progression as a support usually looks like this:
Courier > Obs. Wards > Ring of Regen or Sage's Mask > Flying Courier > Obs. Wards > Sentry > Sentry > Obs. Wards... etc... I'll buy boots at 15-20 minutes and game usually ends right when I finish my Mek at 40-50 minutes.
ring of regen and sages mask are bad starting items in comparison to tangos / salves / clarities because they're too slow in what they provide. if you get harassed down you can heal to full with a salve, if you've got a ring of regen it'd take you 3 minutes to heal what a salve does in 10 seconds.
@oleksandr thanks for all the detailed pictures
Hey how do you secure your carry farm if the lanes is pushed or if the enemy offlane is a strong motherfucker who can tank your hits ? ( clock, for example )
But you chew consumables quickly and what next? Better buy fast Soul Ring + Tranquils and solve your regen issues once and for all.
@Dorkly: You eat a tango and keep trading hits. 125 g of a support (a tango) are less important than 125g spent on a core. But yeah, sometimes you'll get outplayed or out-harrassed and there's not much you can do about it.
you're not gonna get either of those in a timely manner as a support. lets say you have 1 set of tangos and 1 salve.
salve heals 400, 1 tango is 115 so 4 tangos = 460, total HP regen is 860
in order for ring of regen to provide the same amount of healing it'd take 430 seconds for it to heal that much, which is 7 minutes and 10 seconds, meaning if any action that happens prior to 7 minutes, you're going to suffer because you lack HP, and since you're a support, so there's some HP loss guaranteed, whether it be from pulling neutrals or trading hits.
how do people not understand that rushing items isnt always a good idea?
As I said, you will chew all tangos and salves quickly, but what next? You have no gold, no items and your teammates keep spamming: "We need wards!"
A lot of the warding spots in those pictures provide sub-optimal vision and are easier to deward but will suffice for most of the games. I will give you some of my favorite warding spots which aren't the commonly used ones.
The cliff ward here provides more vision of dire and less of your radiant side which is not really necessary.
Impossible to deward unless you physically eat another tree, most don't do that. This requires you to spend a tango on the tree but well worth it as it will probably never be dewarded
This is simply a rune ward and provides less vision than the conventional one but not by much, it is quite hard to deward as most commonly placed sentries will still not reach it and from behind the tree it is not easily visible from uphill. Simply used if you really need that rune vision to not get dewarded. Eating one tree and placing it further in blocks the camp, but again requires a tango.
Unless you actually need the ward vision this is the best ward for the offlanes vision, it is a cross road ward and allows you to see a lot more areas instead of a lot of a single area. It sees the lane, the pull, and oncoming ganks and waiting supports.
A lot of you will know this but just a reminder of how effective this ward is to use in blocking the radiant pull camp.
"necro isnt a support"
any hero can be a support AKA wraith king support AKA alche support so please stop saying dumb things
buy boots
roam around
kill enemy team 10 times
team proceeds to feed back the kills when support is no longer super impactful
lose game
pretty much how my support games go
#1 priority as a support in first 3 minutes is how to create a situation for your team to get first blood. That is the only "routine" you should be thinking of.
That might mean pulling the lane so that you force the opposing offlaner out of position. It might mean harrassing/baiting a lot. It might mean smoking up and ganking mid early. It might mean hiding in the sideshop for a long time soaking up XP then surprising at lvl 2/3. It might mean buying an early TP and showing up in another lane. It might mean a lot of things. But getting first blood should be the only thing on your mind until it happens.
Too many players fall into a "routine": "place ward here, pull now, harass now...blah blah blah predictable shite" without prioritizing first blood and its very very bad.
I 100% agree with KarmaBaby. People linger far to fucking long doing nothing, by the time the horn blows I already have my wards placed and am in position looking for the opportunity for a kill. Stacking and pulling is something you do if a first blood is not available and you want to keep the lane in check while waiting for the next opportunity.
As a support your prerogative should be early game kills and assisting your lanes in winning, not stacking and pulling and placing wards, and while these are important in their own right this is what comes in the down time after kills have been gotten and not done in priority over killing.
"Hey how do you secure your carry farm if the lanes is pushed or if the enemy offlane is a strong motherfucker who can tank your hits ? ( clock, for example )"
Clock isn't going to trade hits with a ranged support cus he is melee. Just get good at positioning so the creep wave doesn't hit you and he'll go down eventually. If you're lich, cm or lion you can blow nukes on him too cus your mana regen is so hawt.
Bristle is the main one I really hate. Impossible to harass that guy if he turns 180 degrees.
Most useful post Melody.
http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/dota/1092/dota-2-ultimate-guide-to-warding/
http://team-ehug.com/ZRuY6cFylec4BelO.pdf
http://team-ehug.com/TYssDb65QwY9vBVt.pdf
http://team-ehug.com/ds5tv5JlLS9ekph8.pdf
http://team-ehug.com/eHgpa5osqIgDTkWP.pdf
http://team-ehug.com/MVvYI2C9Hv5MyAGf.pdf
http://team-ehug.com/rD5a2YPKVZwj0zm7.pdf
Well, if your carry can farm, go gank mid.
If your carry still can farm, gank mid 2-3 times.
Best plan ever.
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talking about the minute before the creeps spawn and up to the first minute when second neutrals spawn and you start pulling.
in other roles, I feel like I've got a set routine to do before a game starts. as a mid, you buy your starting items and get ready to block creeps. as a carry, scout out the jungle so the offlaner doesn't place wards for free, then go block, and offlane, place a ward if I've gotten one, check the rune,then go block.
but as a support, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, because I don't know what's right. I normally buy wards + courier asap then give it to the offlaner so he can secure his vision, but I'm never sure of what to do after. what starting items do I get, or where's the best place to put my own ward?
so for starting items, with 325g left I often go salve + tango + clarity (290g), sometimes it's 1 tango + 2 clarities + 2 branches or a smoke (325g). im never sure of which to get. sometimes I'm a mana dependent support, but I also need regen. Do I get 2 clarities at the cost of less regen (no salve), or get basic regen and only get 1 clarity?
starting items aside, onto warding. what decides on where I should place my ward? on each side there's probably 5 potential ward spots, and I'm not sure what's the best. Normally if I'm on Dire, I'll put it on the dire cliff near the medium camp close to the river, and if Radiant, then i'll most likely put it on the 'island' spot near the Radiant medium camp.
before the creeps spawn, I'll check/guard the rune closest to the safe lane, and try to use it at the latest possible time. how long should I leave it if no one comes to contest it? is it worth missing a pull to get a late rune, after I get it, should I always prioritise stacking the pull camp? sometimes I miss the timing because I spent too much time zoning the offlaner.
TL;DR
- starting items as a support
- where to ward
- priorities: stacking or harassing
- how long should I stay by a rune if no one takes it
what do you guys do?