General DiscussionHow Many Games?

For an easy hero like Lich, it's like 10 games to master

For Invoker, like 50

You can't master Meepo though

Depends on the hero. Most heroes require ~50 games to experience everything about the hero like different skill and item builds, different lane choices and good combos. But heroes like Meepo don't only require that, but also a lot more practice to play well.

Invoker you can never be good enough, Grimorum himself has said he is still not satisfied with his Invoker gameplay yet. And he has about 6000+ games on him. There's always room for improvement

depends on the hero and the player.

The reality is the vast majority of players will never master a hero. there is always room to improve.

exactly 13 games

Is that the amount of games it took you to master Mirana?

it took me 12 because I am a god

Sampson I really don't know why everyone hates you, that cracked me up.

the fact that you dont understand the fact that I said I mastered Mirana as a joke with my friends shows testament to the fact that you have none

Should be 6 if you're god, no? xD

the last 6 where just for show

Sometimes these forum posts are a bit hard to follow...

Also, if you have noticed, people who tend to hate on Sampson are either trolls or smurfs with just 2 or 3 haters being the exception, even though they express their hate in a kind of trollish way to him. Sampson attracts trolls. Fact.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tUyfCzO.png[/IMG]

after 2k hours (including playing/spectating etc) you should at least have 4.5k mmr or more and be comfortable with any hero

i'd say like 2 weeks

I really want to "master" Meepo, that's why I asked.

i think over 9000, atleast thats what i read recently

Takes about 1800 games to master Juggernaut. Kind of.

Sampsom usually trolls others or tries to spread the hate. Or sends only snappy responces. He is like a dog - doesnt forget the past and keeps hating other users even if they try to post in a helpful way.

Said it numerous times that he is 1)black 2)american.

That is why i saw other users from here mostly calling him "retarded ni**a", "retarded american" or just "retarded".

And i am kinda new to these forums. 10hate posts for beloved sampson in ~30-40 topics i read.

Hope everything gets sorted out in the future, black bro.

Blackwolf you are a special kind of person aren't you?

"How many games does it take to get really good at a hero?"
The number decreases as your MMR increases I'd wager, not due to any difference in your personal skill, but because when you play with 9 other players who are sufficiently better than you, you will likely learn something, and if you play with 9 players who are markably worse than you, you will either learn nothing or learn the wrong things.

I am american...............maybe north american lol

Tbh, about 200-400 (from start to finish) through multiple patch changes. You will know how to play it, what lane to play it in, how to last hit against a certain lane, what items to get against heroes, how to kill in team fight, positioning in team fight,to know you can man fight someone etc. When you play that much you will know the difference in different items and builds from previous patches understanding first hand what patch changes do to a hero and you will know what to do in almost every situation. You will know when a fight will turn bad at your level and farm and you will know if something looks killable if you execute it correctly. The point is to do things in a moments notice with the right action which takes a lot of people to hammer it in until it becomes second nature.

I mostly say 200-400 cause thats about as many games as I see people have that really start making ballsy or defensive plays that normal people cannot like
Dendi on Sf
Dragonfist on Storm
Chains on Tinker
N0Tail on Meepo
Admiral Bulldog on Lone Druid.

@axe

sorry, this isnt me... I felt so good in terminus. Then my birthday came; got cast out 10/10 with swag. Joined 4chan to understand anime admins later after dust settled. I changed, in a bad way.

Had to lie to myself and community numerous times. About obvious things they need to know. Because of advices from people sending me emails.

But yeah, be it past or present; i am memorable guy.

I may be ass as of today; but i see great friendship in the future :D

I consider myself a normal person ( i am probably not but whatever ) Sampson is like Wink, both are retard like fuck when it comes to flame people in the internet, but, they are usually right.

I will explain it

QQ Thread

Normal person: " Dude please understand that we dont really care about this "

Sampson/Wink: "Holy fuck you are retarded you are bad and you lose the game for your team " ( Next, if the person disagrees with him ) " You are fucking retarted and you should shot yourself in the head fat kid nerd bastard etc etc etc .... "

Anyway he is a little bit more normal when you actually talk with him.

^
a little exaggerated :P

Just a bit ..........

or not :D

Sampson, I wasn't laughing because I think you're bad at mirana at all! I was laughing at the fact you said it took 13 games to master a hero but you took 12 because you're a god. I just thought it was so outrageously (and sarcastically) egotistical that it make me laugh. Ive got plenty of friends :)

^ there seems to be a missing post because my response was not for you. No idea where it went -_-

Thanks to all those who remained on topic :)

@ *ESP* Wink
But I want to master(or at least get really good at him)

17 games as Meepo and I don't think I am close to mastering him, I can do somethings like blink-poof and I can land the earth binds well. Just need more practice with the micro.

@ Kryptnyt, very good point. I think at my mmr it is really hard to do well, it is mostly just luck if your team is good you win and if you are stuck with less good people you lose.
Like this game http://dotabuff.com/matches/665376136, could never have won it

@ MID OR FEED, thanks that seems allot of games, but if you think about it with all the variables and all the possibilities. It seems you need that too really understand the hero.

@ blackwolf, wtf are you going on about? Drugs?
Drugs are almost always bad for you, make you post weird shit and build a dagon on lion?

I have no problem with any of Dotabuff users, I have always found that Sampson has posted usefull stuff on my topics. both Sampson and Wink. BUT if people make stupid comments, start stupid topics then what do you expect?

Wraith king - 1 game
Lich - 2 games
Lycan - 3 games

Certain heroes are just way more straightforward than others.

I don't know about Lycan, 3 games? Yes in 3 games you can get the hang of simple things. But it takes more than 3 to really get good at lycan, i.e pulling/stacking and blocking with wolves. Last game used a wolf to deny the aegis.

u cant pull or stack with volves cuz they invisible

They do not start off as invisible do they?

depends on your overall skill. if valve creates a brand new hero im pretty sure dendi will master it in less games than me

If each game is included with mentor + depth analysis and checking replay, you can do it less than that
Or you can just make a smurf and play that hero with 100 match count for fun.

I mean generally all lycans do is kill rosh and split push/rat doto so that can be learned very easily in a couple games.

@Topic
Getting really good at a hero means knowing more or less exactly what to do in what situation and for what item to go for.

This means knowing the peak-points of each builds within each situation and this takes experience, and since you have 1 attempt each game results may differ.
But I would argue it is around 20 games and the more intensive a hero is or the more adaptive a her is or has to be it gets way more. Lycan/Sylla e.g. 40-50, Brewmaster/Brood 100, Meepo even more.

People in my mind underestimate being able to play a hero and being able to play a hero well

potm 500 =)

off topic: Vaikiss`742+Jerax raping dondo and xBocT right now. xD

P.S. Though Vaikiss's just 0-1-8 on his wk. Radiance does its job though.

@arkka have you played wraith king at all recently? He has one item build that works best in 99% of situations. He is a melee with one active ability so no hero specific positioning. He is strong early with armlet and ready to team fight with bkb so there's not that much timing or a window for him cus he just gets stronger with more farm. The only thing you really need to learn that is specific to the hero is being mindful of your mana so you can always res.

This is all with specifics to the hero vs learning dota in general. Obviously you need to know basics like don't overlap your stun in a tri lane with other disablers etc.

Hael says dendis SF is better than any other player

I have 5 pros that disagree

Depends on what "really good" means. Depends on the level of skill of people you're planning with and what type of success you are trying to achieve with the hero.

In general, if you mean to get a feel of, get comfortable, learn skill/item builds, I'd say on average probably 10-20 games to understand a hero.

To be the best in the world, 10000 hours

@Mark
To figure out how to react in a certain situation you must have witnessed it and the best would be to be in it!
Lets take into consideration your team and the heroes you are facing and lets say yes or no.

Do you play against an early game team ? 2 Possible situations
Do you play against counters ? 4 different situations
Are you having an advantage ? 8 different situations
Is a hero of special importance for the enemy team ? 16 situations

Basically what im trying to say is that you need to learn and to identify what to do in each situations. For example you can either push or keep on farming while the team pushes, or even just farm as a team or maybe you should enforce pushing by default.

In general I just think we have different things in mind and the question itself is very vague, In some point I agree with you but i just have different idea when hearing the question

It does not matter how simple a hero seems to be, it takes a lot of experience in general and indepth knowledge to be any good with any hero. If a someone talks about heroes I never take him for granted as long as I see some good numbers as in games played, builds (and variety!) and of course general experience.
Have you ever seen me writing to a hero which I have not played ? :P I just post for my heroes unlike others which have barely even touched a hero and are big know-it-alls :P

Yeah but all of those factors have nothing to do with what hero you are playing, they have to do with general dota knowledge and knowledge of the enemy heroes. I agree with you on the ones you posted, playing brew, brood, meepo is hard. Takes a lot of games to get good. But I feel anyone can jump right into lich and wk and play as well as they play with any other hero after a couple games. Sniper is another, guy has very few buttons to push, if you understand in general how to position on a ranged hero you will be fine.

Heroes that require a lot of micro probably take 5 games to go ok I understand what this button does, 10 to get somewhat comfortable, 30+ to really reach your skill cap.

OK LETS DO THE CHALLENGE MARK, I give you a hero, you give me a hero and lets see how comfortable and skill capped we get after a few games. Add me if interested and for the fun of it

Not saying Dendi has the best shadow fiend, but he is def better than just randoms who have played him a lot. I like Arteezys and S4 shadow fiend more. Or if you want to get really old YaphetS.