Sugar, seriously, just ignore this games, try to get better without thinking about mmr too much, if you start to get mad at people in pub games you will just get bored of dota. There a lot of fails on mmr and matchmaking, if you are so sure about those fails just wait, i am SURE that valve is going to change a lot of things, this might not be perfect but it will improve with time. Just think about ranked, they REALLY didnt want to put a ranked system, put they did because people was bitching about it a lot.
You know that its your team fault in some games, i know that too, but if you only think about your game you will improve EVEN more, if you ignore your team mistake and focus on only your mistakes you will get even better.
meaningless? how? that is exactly what the OP is fishing for. I have yet to see one good player trapped below 4k MM so as much as the OP wants to complain about MM it seems to be working fine
I did a game analysis for the OP on what he could have done to win the game and he got hostile on me. The name of the thread is 'HOW TO WIN A GAME DESPITE THE FEEDERS ON YOUR TEAM?' and when I tell him what to do he tries to blame everyone around him, yet you ask me why I am posting meaningless stuff? You may not agree with me but it is pretty obvious that the OP had no intention of taking ANY advice and only made a thread to look for sympathy
On one hand Sampson you seems to know few things about Dota, but on the other one you're so stupid i cant say it enough. Things you are saying are not advices, but only destructive criticism and flaming. Or you cant examine the game as it was or you hate me for some reason (cause i may afterall be a material for 4k+), somehow you always misses the most important things about matches.
You still havent said one thing about how to deal with 1. Suiciding Io, 2. Pushing Brood which only i could deal with, 3. if team went alone to push, they got insta raped cause TA and 2 suports + suicider wasnt enough to do something. So, do i have to picture it to you? My opinion is, this game was lost when we started playing it. You may think otherwise, but you're just one frustrated guy, so i dont take your words too seriously.
Well you could have simply picked a better core hero than bloodseeker. There are many other carries capable of dealing with brood's push while being better at converting a gold advantage into a win.
Don't expect MM to know when some guy is going to deliberately throw a game. If he did it consistently he would have a low rating, but if he only does it when pissed off or drunk there is no way to tell.
Dota is a team game, but you, the player, are the only factor that remains consistent between all your games. Griping about what your teammates could have done better is never constructive. Criticize your own plays, get over losses and move on. Everyone has something to improve on, you just need to find it.
Rage less, in game and on forums. I don't think Sampson cares if you are 4k material or not. His points are not totally invalid either. Be more receptive to the fact that we all suck in some way or another, and look out for those flaws. These are some of the thing most dota players struggle with.
why would I give advice to people who are not here? You keep trying to shift all the blame to random people. Literally every single time I say what you can do to improve your gameplay you go 'BUT X PLAYER DID Y blah blah blah'. If you do not want advice do not make a thread asking for advice.
PS: How exactly am I frustrated? I do quite fine in ranked MM.
would agree with sampson most of his advice is pretty solid. the point he's making is not how your team would have won but how you could have played better which at the end of the day is all you can really do.
seems quite strange to me that a player that admits to wanting to improve is rejecting solid advice.
also you should probably take a look at your builds on most of your carries that you play.
for ex http://dotabuff.com/matches/469929827 while mass bfury ember is fun to play its not practical because it makes him extremely fragile (zero stats in the build) plus the fact that you have the least HD in that game (indicates you were pretty much afk farming) means you should probably try to get involved more.
tl;dr if you want to win 70% of your matches just play your hero in a way that allows you to get involved early and often.
"seems quite strange to me that a player that admits to wanting to improve is rejecting solid advice." - I'm not rejecting any kind of advice, especially not solid one. I carefully read everything you guys say, but "advices" from Samson are like half flaming and half semy-understandable prepositions. I dont like the way he writtes stuff, especially not after all this flaming goin on.
@Zenoth - i gladly take all advice in, guys just write me where exactly should i have done different/buy other items/maybe pick another hero/rotate more/etc. Feel free to comment, just keep the level of comunication pls.
@asd - yeah, i totally agree with that one tho. First my build was quick teamfight oriented with Drums, but after that i got greedy in terms i could do more with Battlefurries when maybe i should go with AC or some other item. I'm not that good with this hero yet, since i played it twice maybe and it was only carry i had and i had to pick one. I didnt farm that much, i pushed lanes more which you can see from replay. Many times i even havent gotten to towers and i already had to tp back to help the team. But we lost the majority of fights cause of bad teamplay/initiation/no teamplay items or heroes. We had earthshaker, but we needed LaNm on it to win this.
We started ok, i farmed well, got few kills (only 1 gank from my team on my lane in whole game tho), then our guys didnt know what to do (i normally had to farm some items), they would fight and they wouldnt (they surely didnt push), i lost a lot of farm because of tp-ing here and there. I wont talk anymore about what they did wrong, cause we're not here for that.
So i'm interested what i should have done to win this? I pushed as much as i could (4.3k tower dmg), done some pretty descent ulties (not perfect by any chance), especially cause of no vision sometimes and because of Doom too. If i went in and didnt caught Doom, he would ulti me and it would be probably a lost fight. We won few fights tho, got few aegis, but somehow it wasnt enough cause we gave them too many free towers due to people without tp.
So, anything i could have done better in terms of play/items? All constructive criticism welcomed (especially direct one).
@sugar, i didnt watch your game, i'll post just based on the stats of the match.. i might be at the same MMR range of yours, so trust me i feel that bro.. today i lost a match because after a TF that we did like 4-1, instead of pushing the shit out, my team thought it would be so nice of an idea to go rosh (we were at their tier2 towers).. we had 2 carries that were performing bad, and the other team had Void (which isn't great though).. that was the moment to get a solid advantage and they just threw it.. i did everything i could to call their attention, pinged, asked for them please destroy the towers, but nah...
but ok, now bout your game.. i think you did ok, average LH, average XPM/GPM.. your items choices seemed fine for me. but i think as you were the hardest carry in the match (and tiny wasn't doing well as it seems) you should have had more impact than you actually had. i mean, 9 kills and 7k HD are low numbers for a hero with that teamfight potential such as void. as soon as you had cristalys and MoM you should have been feared in fights, you should be more present on fights.. like, farm when your ulti is on cooldown, and when its off, tell your team that you already has got your ulti. the other team didnt seem to be overfarmed, though they had some beefy heroes there.
how well did you do on lane stage? i usually put 1 point on backtrack just in case
also i kind of learned that sometimes there is not you could to to avoid the loss, but there is always what you could have done to improve your own performance. have you ever had the lead on that game? if yes, you should have catched that opportunity cause with XP and gold advantage, void can do wonders.
but yea you were ok, probably better than the rest of your team, and that enchant carry build is pretty funny, though she would have been more useful if she had a disable item besides malevolence.
what works for me is watch replays of myself (in games that i did well or not, doesnt matter) and watch what i did wrong. sometimes during the match you can't just pay attention to everything, as you're focused on lasthitting, in the next second you are checking sidelanes, etc. so in replays you can actually see what you did miss during the match, and thats the way i improve the better
but yea dont take me too seriously as i'm not nearly good as some guys we have in this forum, just trying to help you cause i'm through the same thing
Yeah, you're right and i mostly agree with you. I could have done more teamfights, but i tried to fight as much as i could after i got MOM. Mirana just didnt ulti (he was a retard if i'm honest, at least thats my opinion), we just waited mid doing completely nothing and after some time i went back to farm. Of couse i told them to go in, told Mirana to ult, etc, but they didnt listen. As soon as i went back on the lane they went in and died few times like that.
They told me to initiate first, but when you have no vision, if you go in with void and misses your ult or dont do it perfectly on few of them, you're practially dead and of no use if got doomed. Team didnt buy me enough space or give me enough vision to land perfect ult on them or maybe i just didnt position perfectly (which i think i did ok, i'm usually good at positioning). If you watched replay, you could tell more, its hard to do it from stats.
My lane was pretty anoying (WR and Abbadon), but i LH good and got my items pretty soon. We just didnt make the most out of it, cause of different things (lack of comunication and same thinking).
Yeah, probably. Although Doom still goes thru that, i would had a better chance to land good ult if i didnt need to worry about stuns and magical dmg from their Invoker and Tiny.
Just lost a won game... The final score looks in their favour, but we actually were wining by a lot till one point, quickly put top rax down, had map control, etc. Then click - Brood gone completely idiotic, died to them like 10 times for nothing, Mirana couldnt land one arrow (in whole game btw), underfarmed WD and they had lategame carries... If anyone cares to quickly analyze it, would be aprecciated. What could I do better, to make us win?
Yep, we were countered. But as long as we played together, not diing for nothing and actually appliying pressure to them, they were clueless. Then it all began to go down...
Yeah, probably. She died like 10 times after pretty good play on lanes pushing, although i told her to be careful and hide outside the map. Even Bat can't find her there. But then she just stopped playing, came to teamfights, etc. Not a good Brood player i guess... Shame, stupid loss.
brood is a situational pick(he can be OP or UP depend on who he is fighting), against that comp there is really nothing that can be done unless there is a huge skill difference
Well, like i said. We were owning them for a long time, then low skill of some players came in play (especially mirana and WD) and we lost fights badly -they had better late game anyway. I told them countless times focus Huskar and they did all except that. Blah, it's pointless to debade about it (they said they were 4k mmr btw) which i hardly believe, cause a 4k player should know what priority in fight is.
Sugar, seriously, just ignore this games, try to get better without thinking about mmr too much, if you start to get mad at people in pub games you will just get bored of dota. There a lot of fails on mmr and matchmaking, if you are so sure about those fails just wait, i am SURE that valve is going to change a lot of things, this might not be perfect but it will improve with time. Just think about ranked, they REALLY didnt want to put a ranked system, put they did because people was bitching about it a lot.
You know that its your team fault in some games, i know that too, but if you only think about your game you will improve EVEN more, if you ignore your team mistake and focus on only your mistakes you will get even better.
Thanks for that man, really well written! I'll take that in mind and try to do my best focusing only on improving my play.
basically all Sugar Puppy wants is for people to tell him 'it is not your fault', glad we cleared that up
@sampson
Do you have a good reason for posting meaningless posts such as that?
meaningless? how? that is exactly what the OP is fishing for. I have yet to see one good player trapped below 4k MM so as much as the OP wants to complain about MM it seems to be working fine
I did a game analysis for the OP on what he could have done to win the game and he got hostile on me. The name of the thread is 'HOW TO WIN A GAME DESPITE THE FEEDERS ON YOUR TEAM?' and when I tell him what to do he tries to blame everyone around him, yet you ask me why I am posting meaningless stuff? You may not agree with me but it is pretty obvious that the OP had no intention of taking ANY advice and only made a thread to look for sympathy
On one hand Sampson you seems to know few things about Dota, but on the other one you're so stupid i cant say it enough. Things you are saying are not advices, but only destructive criticism and flaming. Or you cant examine the game as it was or you hate me for some reason (cause i may afterall be a material for 4k+), somehow you always misses the most important things about matches.
You still havent said one thing about how to deal with 1. Suiciding Io, 2. Pushing Brood which only i could deal with, 3. if team went alone to push, they got insta raped cause TA and 2 suports + suicider wasnt enough to do something. So, do i have to picture it to you? My opinion is, this game was lost when we started playing it. You may think otherwise, but you're just one frustrated guy, so i dont take your words too seriously.
And btw: http://twilight.ponychan.net/chan/files/src/134091212464.gif Have a good night :)
Well you could have simply picked a better core hero than bloodseeker. There are many other carries capable of dealing with brood's push while being better at converting a gold advantage into a win.
Don't expect MM to know when some guy is going to deliberately throw a game. If he did it consistently he would have a low rating, but if he only does it when pissed off or drunk there is no way to tell.
Dota is a team game, but you, the player, are the only factor that remains consistent between all your games. Griping about what your teammates could have done better is never constructive. Criticize your own plays, get over losses and move on. Everyone has something to improve on, you just need to find it.
Rage less, in game and on forums. I don't think Sampson cares if you are 4k material or not. His points are not totally invalid either. Be more receptive to the fact that we all suck in some way or another, and look out for those flaws. These are some of the thing most dota players struggle with.
why would I give advice to people who are not here? You keep trying to shift all the blame to random people. Literally every single time I say what you can do to improve your gameplay you go 'BUT X PLAYER DID Y blah blah blah'. If you do not want advice do not make a thread asking for advice.
PS: How exactly am I frustrated? I do quite fine in ranked MM.
would agree with sampson most of his advice is pretty solid. the point he's making is not how your team would have won but how you could have played better which at the end of the day is all you can really do.
seems quite strange to me that a player that admits to wanting to improve is rejecting solid advice.
also you should probably take a look at your builds on most of your carries that you play.
for ex http://dotabuff.com/matches/469929827 while mass bfury ember is fun to play its not practical because it makes him extremely fragile (zero stats in the build) plus the fact that you have the least HD in that game (indicates you were pretty much afk farming) means you should probably try to get involved more.
tl;dr if you want to win 70% of your matches just play your hero in a way that allows you to get involved early and often.
"seems quite strange to me that a player that admits to wanting to improve is rejecting solid advice." - I'm not rejecting any kind of advice, especially not solid one. I carefully read everything you guys say, but "advices" from Samson are like half flaming and half semy-understandable prepositions. I dont like the way he writtes stuff, especially not after all this flaming goin on.
@Zenoth - i gladly take all advice in, guys just write me where exactly should i have done different/buy other items/maybe pick another hero/rotate more/etc. Feel free to comment, just keep the level of comunication pls.
@asd - yeah, i totally agree with that one tho. First my build was quick teamfight oriented with Drums, but after that i got greedy in terms i could do more with Battlefurries when maybe i should go with AC or some other item. I'm not that good with this hero yet, since i played it twice maybe and it was only carry i had and i had to pick one. I didnt farm that much, i pushed lanes more which you can see from replay. Many times i even havent gotten to towers and i already had to tp back to help the team. But we lost the majority of fights cause of bad teamplay/initiation/no teamplay items or heroes. We had earthshaker, but we needed LaNm on it to win this.
Ok, there is probably a problem with me here, which i would really like to solve. Take a look at this one.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/471575325
We started ok, i farmed well, got few kills (only 1 gank from my team on my lane in whole game tho), then our guys didnt know what to do (i normally had to farm some items), they would fight and they wouldnt (they surely didnt push), i lost a lot of farm because of tp-ing here and there. I wont talk anymore about what they did wrong, cause we're not here for that.
So i'm interested what i should have done to win this? I pushed as much as i could (4.3k tower dmg), done some pretty descent ulties (not perfect by any chance), especially cause of no vision sometimes and because of Doom too. If i went in and didnt caught Doom, he would ulti me and it would be probably a lost fight. We won few fights tho, got few aegis, but somehow it wasnt enough cause we gave them too many free towers due to people without tp.
So, anything i could have done better in terms of play/items? All constructive criticism welcomed (especially direct one).
@sugar, i didnt watch your game, i'll post just based on the stats of the match.. i might be at the same MMR range of yours, so trust me i feel that bro.. today i lost a match because after a TF that we did like 4-1, instead of pushing the shit out, my team thought it would be so nice of an idea to go rosh (we were at their tier2 towers).. we had 2 carries that were performing bad, and the other team had Void (which isn't great though).. that was the moment to get a solid advantage and they just threw it.. i did everything i could to call their attention, pinged, asked for them please destroy the towers, but nah...
but ok, now bout your game.. i think you did ok, average LH, average XPM/GPM.. your items choices seemed fine for me. but i think as you were the hardest carry in the match (and tiny wasn't doing well as it seems) you should have had more impact than you actually had. i mean, 9 kills and 7k HD are low numbers for a hero with that teamfight potential such as void. as soon as you had cristalys and MoM you should have been feared in fights, you should be more present on fights.. like, farm when your ulti is on cooldown, and when its off, tell your team that you already has got your ulti. the other team didnt seem to be overfarmed, though they had some beefy heroes there.
how well did you do on lane stage? i usually put 1 point on backtrack just in case
also i kind of learned that sometimes there is not you could to to avoid the loss, but there is always what you could have done to improve your own performance. have you ever had the lead on that game? if yes, you should have catched that opportunity cause with XP and gold advantage, void can do wonders.
but yea you were ok, probably better than the rest of your team, and that enchant carry build is pretty funny, though she would have been more useful if she had a disable item besides malevolence.
what works for me is watch replays of myself (in games that i did well or not, doesnt matter) and watch what i did wrong. sometimes during the match you can't just pay attention to everything, as you're focused on lasthitting, in the next second you are checking sidelanes, etc. so in replays you can actually see what you did miss during the match, and thats the way i improve the better
but yea dont take me too seriously as i'm not nearly good as some guys we have in this forum, just trying to help you cause i'm through the same thing
Yeah, you're right and i mostly agree with you. I could have done more teamfights, but i tried to fight as much as i could after i got MOM. Mirana just didnt ulti (he was a retard if i'm honest, at least thats my opinion), we just waited mid doing completely nothing and after some time i went back to farm. Of couse i told them to go in, told Mirana to ult, etc, but they didnt listen. As soon as i went back on the lane they went in and died few times like that.
They told me to initiate first, but when you have no vision, if you go in with void and misses your ult or dont do it perfectly on few of them, you're practially dead and of no use if got doomed. Team didnt buy me enough space or give me enough vision to land perfect ult on them or maybe i just didnt position perfectly (which i think i did ok, i'm usually good at positioning). If you watched replay, you could tell more, its hard to do it from stats.
My lane was pretty anoying (WR and Abbadon), but i LH good and got my items pretty soon. We just didnt make the most out of it, cause of different things (lack of comunication and same thinking).
should have got a bkb
Yeah, probably. Although Doom still goes thru that, i would had a better chance to land good ult if i didnt need to worry about stuns and magical dmg from their Invoker and Tiny.
nope, if there is a invoker on the other team u need a bkb
Agreed.
Just lost a won game... The final score looks in their favour, but we actually were wining by a lot till one point, quickly put top rax down, had map control, etc. Then click - Brood gone completely idiotic, died to them like 10 times for nothing, Mirana couldnt land one arrow (in whole game btw), underfarmed WD and they had lategame carries... If anyone cares to quickly analyze it, would be aprecciated. What could I do better, to make us win?
http://dotabuff.com/matches/472820302
^ Your team was heavily countered by the other heroes in that one.
Yep, we were countered. But as long as we played together, not diing for nothing and actually appliying pressure to them, they were clueless. Then it all began to go down...
once a broodmother starts teamfighting you have prob lost the game at that point
Yeah, probably. She died like 10 times after pretty good play on lanes pushing, although i told her to be careful and hide outside the map. Even Bat can't find her there. But then she just stopped playing, came to teamfights, etc. Not a good Brood player i guess... Shame, stupid loss.
brood is a situational pick(he can be OP or UP depend on who he is fighting), against that comp there is really nothing that can be done unless there is a huge skill difference
Well, like i said. We were owning them for a long time, then low skill of some players came in play (especially mirana and WD) and we lost fights badly -they had better late game anyway. I told them countless times focus Huskar and they did all except that. Blah, it's pointless to debade about it (they said they were 4k mmr btw) which i hardly believe, cause a 4k player should know what priority in fight is.