General Discussionhard carriers, worth to pick in pubs?

stop picking hard carries

you do not play like a pro so you should not expect your teammates to play like pros as well.

sampson, well even not playing as a pro, whenever i pick support i try my best to let my carry free farm, instead of stealing and pushing the lane

and srsly, what could you do as a hard carry to "play like a pro" when your team simply doesnt let you farm? jungle? yea but there are some heroes that just arent as good at it on early levels

tell me (not being offensive), what would you do when you are constantly being harassed and can't do shit about it cause your safe lane is too pushed away and your teammate cannot provide any help (this is not a thread about bad teammates, its just about if either it's worth picking carries or not)

Don't pick a hard carry, they pretty much only work if you are playing with friends (and could secure the safelane) or if you get some teammates who actually know how to play with one.

Unless you have stellar positioning and map awareness, it's better to play a carry with a strong lane presence. I have met people who can instalock hard carries and find farm even in the hardest of lanes, but these players are very rare. With teammates you don't know, it is a safer option to pick a strong laner if you're looking for a carry - gyro and luna are options, or perhaps traditional off-laners such as bone and bristleback - they benefit alot from safelane farm and are strong enough to hold a lane by themselves.

you're wrong, Zano. If you know what you're doing a hard carry can pretty much win the game by himself when more skilled than opponnents or if left unchecked, even if rest of team being dominated. As an example, http://dotabuff.com/matches/467272292 that gyro won the game by himself. we completely dominated the game, but with some dumb decisions/throws (not checking ancients, overextending, diving - we actually thought game was over), gyro managed to wipe us more than once, even with all feed by his team. 10 solo players, btw.

Yes, but that's a very rare case. I've played with carrys who pretty much won us the game by themselves too (and lost against), but that's not a situation that happens very often. http://dotabuff.com/matches/317129905 (The Nyx gave us some early advantage which my AM friend and me ruined completely during the midgame BTW). http://dotabuff.com/matches/340402013, this game COULD have been definitely won by that QoP alone if she had had a harder carry, but then again, look at her profile.

Generally speaking, that's a rare enough situation that I don't hesitate to make statements like the one I put above.

always, if you dont=lose
http://dotabuff.com/matches/464316258
http://dotabuff.com/matches/464435235

besides gyro and luna, what other carriers do you recommend? i don't like to pick AM/Void/Spectre cause i usually have impact only after 40min mark

i like tiny, but ppl deny me any farm cause they think im going for the caster build.. gyrocopter is a hero i'm terrible with, terrible. i feed from the first minute on, srsly, i'm freakin terrible, which is a shame cause i like the hero.. luna i think i'm ok with it, some rly good games with her and some games that are worth forgetting

sometimes i pick jugger, though he is not thaaat carrier, he can do it in some situations and have a strong early presence. can you guys name a few more heroes? so far: gyro and luna

Clinkz, Bristleback, Lifestealer, Weaver, Viper, Slark are all strong safe laners with good early impact. Of course, this also depends on how you play the hero - no hero is going to have much of an impact with Midas and afk farm playstyle.

lifestealer is good in pubs because you can get into the jungle after a few lv's in the lane (starting in the jungle is never good)
riki (while not a great hero) works in pubs sometimes because they cant outlast hit backstab :P
viper, same reason as riki but is a better hero

those are all off the top of my head

gravity is working agains... What`s your mmr? Seems like you are in low tier where ppl steal creeps from carry at laning stage,that never happens to me now but I know that feeling I m at 4900 mmr . Ask him nicely to let you and don`t flame him if he wont , you just can`t explain bad ppl in a few mins what they are doing wrong focus on your play get cs how many you can and don`t die early. That what you talking about hard carrys don`t have impact early game tha`s a shit. They need to have and they can have,is a litle bit less than midle usually and roaming supports but still carry need to Tp to deff midle tower or to join fights like 3v4 4v3 2v3 etc. and not just afk farm that`s how noobs do.
Go watch replay my lifestealer last game I played http://dotabuff.com/matches/467691761 and see game impact how I did it,and you ll maybe understand a next lvl of play

Viper I pick mostly to face strong snowballers in the midlane if my team doesn't have the balls to do so, you could try that too and remember to always gank.
Carry Sven is good too for pubs, if your supports are stealing your farm, get a Soul Ring and blast those creeps and neutrals/KS.
Lycan. If your carrying doesn't go too well, you can always farm Necros3 and start ratdotoing with him instead.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/464170908 pretty bad supports and terrible laning stage. But hard carries secure you late game. So it was a won game in the end. Also that ET guy is FadiFlashi. God he is so bad.

Play hard carries, buy mid game items, participate in fights and help your team to win the game.

Its possible to recover on hard carries, but you just have to do it by taking the risks to be in fights and taking farm in more dangerous and difficult positions.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/466476138 This game I had 4 cs at 5 minutes because my lane was badly controlled with LS afk jungling and WR double pulling. And I just missed a the few lasthits I had a shot at. I had to get diffusal first instead of radiance... but I maxed desolate and ulted into ganks and picked up the gold I needed that way. I almost died a lot. But it works as long as you don't die.

http://dotabuff.com/heroes/winning

Antimage is at 40% 2nd lowest winrate for all hero in pubs because he typically farms 2 major items before fighting. If you want to do better you just have to adjust your build and decisions. Realize you are not the old Burning on the old DK in a 4 protect 1 strat. You have to contribute sooner and farm less. Now I have over 300 games of spectre from dota 1 so I know how to play in hard games... my antimage really is pretty bad, I've barely played it. But my guess is with AM this can be done by getting salves, taking risks and then blinking away when almost dead to salve up.

Carries are fine. Going carry usually gives you a bit more control over how the match ends up. Play really good as a support and bad carries still lose it for you. Play really good as a carry and you can usually live with incompetent support, as long as the other team doesn't 5 man push or something.

I think your issue is the type of carries because they aren't created equal. Don't go phantom assassin or AM. They are very farm dependent and take forever to be ready to team fight and need lane support. As others suggested, luna is great. Good lane presence and great farming abilities plus a really powerful ult, she can team fight at 6. She is farm dependent late but early she can use her abilities to fight. Her downside? Really squishy and no escape but map awareness can overcome that.

Other good ones are semi carries that are strong early like bristle and timbersaw.

PLAY SUPPORT :) Is fun time and you might even get a thank you!

Spectre has arguably the strongest mid game impact for a "hard carry", with maxing desloate, ea illu does an extra 45 or something damage.
which means your ulti is essentially a 200+ damage global nuke at lvl 7.
So spectre might be a good way for you to join your team while still farming, Spectre with levels and no farm will still kill both the supports on the other team. If you need to fight early, go for phase, drums, diffu.
If your goal is to outcarry, while trading freefarm with an opponant. Radiance is always a neat choice.

Void is another good 'hard carry', that atleast contributes something early on. If you can get paired with a lich, or WD or anything of the sort. Farm while chrono is off CD, and look for pickoffs while its up to secure more farm.
a MoM or maelstorm void, farms decently fast to be able to catchup into the game, rather then a Battlefury.

depends on the carry. AM and Spectre obviously wont do shit, but Alchemist and PA can do okay. I also see Voids do really well if their team has OP mid game heroes.
Examples:

FV: http://dotabuff.com/matches/463815638
Alch: http://dotabuff.com/matches/286212558
Gyro: http://dotabuff.com/matches/346424696

In all of these games, sure I carried later on in the game, but we had a VERY strong midgame presence which is why we were able to win late. If you plan to be a hard carry, let your team pick heroes first and then decide what you will grab. *Note that Alchemist is now a very strong midgame hero, so he has an even easier time transitioning into a late game hard carry, so he is a top tier pub carry pick*

ask the team if they are going support or carry. if not go carry mode!!! troll warlord FTW!

That is why there is a beautiful thing known as a party. It lets you play with friends who are very co-operative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5rIyrtBZ_g&feature=youtube_gdata_player