Playing solo it feels like a little bit of skill goes a long way. You know where to be, when to go there, what to buy, where to place wards.
As I've moved through the ranks lvl 1-10 was crazy as people are just starting and others are smurfing for cheap wins.
Lvl 11-20 seems to be who has the best support as the difference between the teams main carry is generally small.
So to have a successful time in a pub. Good carry who can attack (gank) at the right time, good support whos is happy to ward the runes early game and get things like mana boots, mek or pipe. Lastly the other three hopefully don't feed too much and sometimes even then it still doesn't matter because your carry just plays so good against the other teams three.
115 games with Medusa, i suggest you go fuck yourself, people like you ruin matchmaking.
pubs are as random as they get. i had games where i went 21-0 in 20min and still lost and i had games where i went 0-9 in 10min and won.
Basically, It all depends on the amount of russians in your team.
20% skill with your pick , 80% of your teamies skill with their picks , shit team = shitty game
When he creates another smurf account so he can get clips.
The factors which determine a win/loss can vary greatly between every match. Sometimes its the picks, sometimes its just purely unbalanced teams (even by the numbers or smurf account), sometimes its a single event/player that causes one team to win/lose, and it could be luck too (runes/crits/etc).
Helical has been busy with other projects. He's been working on Raging Fury V since April. I guess one-two months?
The skill % depends on the pick%.
For example if your team have all heroes that require good team work, like DS, treant, Enig, Tide then skill must be 50% or even more.
If your team have a very hard carry and they doesnt then the picks just won.
With public matchmaking in AP games there are two major factors that determine who will win. Neither of which is directly the skill of the players.
The first is teamwork. A team that all comes together and focuses down one target after another, takes towers, does not wander off to randomly feed...that team will win regardless of picks or individual skill over a team where each player plays for themselves. We have all had those games where one team just had it together (from actually being friends in a que or not) and the other team randomly wandered around trying to solo farm, solo push, and solo gank...such games are massacres.
So the amount of teamwork often wins outright despite picks and skill.
The 2nd factor is indirectly skill with particular heroes as a result of picks. Players are matched based on their average performance. But the performance of any public player is dramatically different from one hero to the next. The team that picks their personal best heroes wins. The team that picks their personal worst heroes loses.
No one but the best Very High players get anywhere near the potential of any heroes. So hero based countering really is a small factor in public matchmaking games. Instead how good each player is on the hero they choose determines the win. This is why a player will end up with a very high winrate on one hero and very low win rate on another hero.
For examples:
Relentless is 24-4 on Lich but 1-10 on Faceless Void
Kẻ buôn hành is 27-5 on Bloodseeker but 0-12 on Phantom Assasin
Grimorum is 73-16 on Invoker but 4-14 on Earthshaker
Vawb is 11-4 on Nyx but 2-8 on Chaos Knight
ED^Mapzor is 13-7 on Tinker but 2-5 on Rubic
Any player who has a large number games on many heroes will show this same large divergence in performance.
It is like, if u have skills and not high like me, u will pick right, lane right, do right staff !!
and win :D
Picking a hero just because it counters an opponent (Ex: slardar/bh vs invi heroes) or because in theory works great with an ally (Ex: wisp/ck, kotl/pl, tiny/cent etc) usually is a bad idea unless you are actually good with that hero.
This is even true of pro players in public games.
DK.Burning is 40-9 on QoP but 3-6 on Tidehunter, 3-5 on Doombringer, 2-3 on PA, 1-2 on BS, 1-2 on Cent, 1-2 on Veno, 1-2 on Lina, 1-3 on enigma...these heroes he rarely plays, he is no where near as good using them.
EG.DeMoN [RC] is 27-6 on Beastmaster but 2-7 on CM, 1-4 on KotL, 3-6 on Timbersaw, 1-5 on Pugna, 1-5 on Nyx, 2-5 on Clinkz
FnaticRC.N0tail is 27-6 on Shadow Shaman but 2-6 on Viper, 3-7 on BS, 2-4 on Tusk, 5-8 on KotL
These amazing pro player are of course still very very good on their worst heroes. But the diffrence between their skill on their weakest hero and their strongest is very large...causing them to consistently lose when playing heroes they have not practiced much...heroes they may not even understand how to play correctly at a high level since they have focused so much on the heroes and roles they usually use.
you are completely wrong here
it's not about skill it's a lot more about attitude and motivation and other random factors
when burning plays tide he doesn't suck with it, maybe he's playing with friends too and they all random and don't really care or he decides not to play like a support with it which might conflict with other teammates assuming him in a supportive role and picking accordingly
another thing is that with great power comes great responsibility!
that means a player with high MMR is supposed to have a high impact which isn't always possible
you can play a perfect support game and if your carry sucks dick you are still going to lose most likely, while playing a great carry game can net you a win even with the most retarded support player
all these win/loss statistics say absolutely nothing about the player's skill with those heroes
>grimorum
http://dotabuff.com/matches/194949761
go away you garbage invoker, stay mid all game and don't gank as invoker :), also lrn 2 sunstrike
Never used scripts; it is not that hard with practice. A week of practice at invokergame.com and you could be very fast too. More importantly, it's about connecting appropriate skills in various scenarios. Prepping orbs and predicting spells for next engagement is supremely important; 99.99% of invoker players do not do this.
There is another way to put it. I have only seen, besides Grimorum, the very best pro invokers use that technique on any consistent basis. People get lazy even if they know to do it, and even most pro invokers I have watched don't seem to think about switching orbs to prep for anything, movement, attacks, ganks, comboes...whatever you watch POV and people just don't do it, even if five or six times a game they might think about orb prep and set up something.
Its just one of those things that can really give you that extra advantage, like treads switching. Or you might even see Dendi drop items to bottle for extra mana and hp. It can really make a big difference, but its harder to do, harder to think about...people get lazy.
But if you want to know the difference between having a good invoker, say 4-5 KDA, and an amazing one 10+ KDA...these little things allow you to make plays that are otherwise impossible.
In low level games just summon two forge spirits and invoke cold snap and sunstrike and roll your way to victory.
>10KD on smurf account
>actually 4.25KD player http://dotabuff.com/players/97262499
Any good player knows to have their spells and orbs ready to go. 99% (probably around 95%) of players not doing that is not indicative of it being difficult or a high level technique, but rather how bad the majority of players in DotA are. I said it before, the moment you stop auto attacking and start to last hit, you put yourself above 60%~ of players in the game.
Not sure why you keep thinking that grimorum is exceptional at Invoker when really he is just your average high level invoker player, and doesn't even come remotely close to the players at the top end of match making. Its sad that people see his videos and think he is good, not knowing that they are from matches on his countless smurf accounts, the same as Dr._.zlO with his Tinker vids.
Go read his posts on playdota, you might take this as a compliment Relentless, but even you might know more about the game than him, I'll dig up some quotes later if I can be bothered.
^
Nearly 500 games, this is not a smurf. My old account had 4.25 KD because I enjoyed late game so much I didn't want to end. I built refresher orb (30% of game history) for fun. Consequently, it ruined my win rate and KDA ratio.
More like you couldn't do shit every second match in high level games:
http://dotabuff.com/players/97262499/matches?hero=invoker&game_mode=&match_type=real
negative KD in 23 out of the last 39 matches, and only won 14 of them (35.8%)
^ That brings us back on topic. I used to instant pick invoker and didn't care about picks at all. It gave opposing team time to compose strategies.
Just "No". WR and KDA gives whole information for the smart player. Most of people 48-52 WR are low skill. Some of them are totally retarded. Also KDA shows that if the retard plays carry/ganger and has less than 3 KDA - he is fucking noob.
On the other side there are lot of players who plays on statistics. It means they will never risk their lives and always stay behind and waitng untill sm1 from their team will start the fight. Such people have good KDA, but < 50% WR on their most popular heroes. Rhey are fucking noobs as well.
Good players are ~15% of all players in dota 2. And, yes, I am in those 15%. And most of u are not, ofc.
Keep changing the story, fact is you can't play Invoker against half decent players. Who do you consider to be a counter to Invoker btw? Every other common mid hero? Then again, I don't really care about the opinion of someone who believes that in terms of balance, its only fair for Invoker to beat every other mid hero.
Someday Casual will watch a replay or two of a high level game so he can see what it is like.
I have about 90% with lifestealer in IH games. I'll probably begin to play more match making after the beta (and the improved MM system that Gabe talked about).
edit: relentless, what happened to pretending that girmorum was a 10kd player??
You are trying to defend someone who (when Invoker was a top pick mid hero, pre-nerf) thought that because TA was able to beat Invoker at mid lane, one of the few heroes that could beat Invoker at this time mind you, that TA deserved a nerf. Noherp is allowed to beat Invoker at mid, that's what grimorum argued.
And then he has gone from, lol my KD is bad because I buy refresher every game, despite only winning 35% and going negative in the majority of his games in high level matches. The difference is that good Invoker players, Dendi, Ferrari, Bulba, or really any high level player, people who have played this game for a long time (most players in the top stacks) can play Invoker really well.
Casual only has 35 games total. He only plays private games where the stats are hidden...or so he says. He can't face real matchmaking games since it would reveal that...well he is a slightly above average player. He is probably better than 60% of pubs. I think if he worked at it he could make it into High Bracket, but he is not there yet. Every game he has so far on record is against low level pubs.
So what? And its not about stats being hidden either, I really couldn't care less about that. Its about having good, balanced games. This MM system currently does not achieve that. It gives weighting to one team, and after a few games its reversed. So you might play well, win a few games, and then suddenly you get a team full of russians. That's not what a good MM system is. A good MM system is one that does not care about what streak you are on, or the results of your past games, it should only care about your current rating, and do its best to create an even game based on that. Not force wins and losses every second match.
I play in VH games, and I've already explained that searching for other players in Recent games does not work, maybe its server based or something, I don't know. When I search for your games Relentless I only see Normal Bracket, and its the same when I search for lots of other players. I don't know why this is the case, but thats what is.
No you don't. You don't have magical hidden very high games. You have private games that are not publicly recorded at all, count for no rating, have no check on how much you stack them. Go ahead and lie about my record. Everyone can check it and see that you are lieing.
You have taken the name of another player who does have some Very High games for this website to pretend you are good. But the steam ID was not fooled. You have Normal bracket games and only a handful of them.
You don't like the matchmaking system because it shows you that you really are not special, not exceptional, not excellent.
The fact is we all get the teams of 4 "russians" or whatever you want to call it. But a good player, like myself, will still win it more often than not and easily advance from Normal to High to Very High whenever I choose to play my best heroes...not run away crying that it was too hard.
lols, took me long enough to read all the bickering...
my conclusion :
1.haters of Grimorum , are those who are jelous of him
2. defenders of Grimorum respect invoker and his dificulty
3.the haters of Grimorum have a very huge e-peen. XD
**@ casual :stop picking on people while your account is new. simply means youve got no respect, self respect and a stinking attitude
Relentless "But a good player, like myself," take a look at your kda. :9
As I've said countless of times, mm favours bad players over good. Dont mind, baddies wont ever accept it.
@ Maverick
4. People that don't know Grimorum at all.
Like I said to Relentless, go and see his posts in the PD balance section. And then go look at his game records in high level games, as opposed to the clips in his videos which are all from smurf accounts.
I respect people that are good at the game,and there are plenty of players like that. My favourite players in the past were 13abyknight, Kuroky and Vigoss, and now its Chuan, Ferrari, iceiceice - and not just pros either, a lot of people in the higher levels of the match making system are extremely good at the game as well. Those are the people I respect, not ones that create smurf accounts to get clips for youtube.
@ Relentless
I never said they were that high level, and they aren't, and it does vary. There are a couple of really good players in the IH, but most are mid-skill ~1800 players. In every match balance shuffle is used, and you obviously have never played a single IH games in DotA 2 if you keep complaining about stacking in IH games..
I still don't know why you persist with something I have already explained, I can search your name and I see No Results for Very High level games. It must be server related or something, but that's what it is. That's not me saying that you haven't played any VH games, but rather that there are some issues with the search function.
Lot's of people don't like the match making system, its fucking pathetic that you keep trying to say that I am the only one who has a problem with it. It quite simply does not make any sense, creating 50% over the long term is not what a good MM system is, a good MM system is one that will result in around 50% win rates BY creating even games as often as possible, without forced wins/losses. There have been plenty of threads with people talking about it and giving examples of games which even by the numbers are completely retarded.
You fed in 14 of your last 20 games ( <0.5 KD as support and <1KD when playing #1-2), not so sure where you got that ego from.
that shld have taken a long time to type lol..
any ways was just expressing my general views.....i agree that mm system is bad, but its better than nothing... so i appreciate it..
@relenless dude ur fucking retard
invoker only gets kills with sunstrikes and rarely with meteor otherwise carry takes kills
so invoker kda means nothing also its solo mid so being ganked alot and usualy focused first on fights
Casual you are bad at lieing. You lie about things that are public record so everyone knows you are lieing. Anyone who cares will search my games and find lots of Very High games, you do also. You are just lieing about it.
You don't have the slightest idea what feeding means. You think this is still dota 1...you are so newb you don't even recognize assists...really you want to talk about my K/D? lol! Its obvious to everyone who is actually good at dota that you don't know how to play. You are not deceiving people. "lots of people" don't hate the matchmaking. You are delusional. A few mediocre players who used to stack and like to troll the forum...a forum with no connection to Valve, just to whine...That is who hates the matchmaking system. Its people like you who used to be able to pretend they were amazing in dota 1 but can't now.
You don't get "forced" to lose. You lose because you can't carry your way up out of low level play...because you are a slightly above average player. You would be able to get into High Bracket if you worked at it, but you refuse. Instead you complain that its to hard and unfair. Meanwhile in your grand ignorance you come again and again to the forum to lecture players who are vastly superior to you on how to play dota as it you knew and to insult and deride players who are slightly worse than you as if you were a god.
@ Vaikiss. I'm sorry you are not as good as Murs. I'm not going to pretend you are just so you will like me. Stop being bitter about it. Go earn your own success. You are capable of it. Being jealous does not help you improve....really invoker KDA means nothing? only gets kills with Sunstrikes and Meteors? come on you don't believe that crap.
Relentless spoke about my rubick, http://dotabuff.com/matches/195784259
I managed to steal every black hole, but the game BUGGED and instead of replacing the current stolen spell the game decided to just remove it without replacing it with the black hole, and it is pretty much the easiest spell to steal in this game, u see enigma channeling it?
click R/Q(legacy) and right click on enigma, ofc I thought I had stolen the spell, I blink into the mid of the fight, then BOOOOM, no black hole, no other spell too, like r u kidding me ?!?!
PS. spell steal goes through bkb, and I even tested it after that retarded game
Are you really that dumb? In my past 20 matches, I won 14, had a negative KD in 3 matches, >590 GPM in 11 matches (despite playing safelane carry in just 11 of those matches, and that includes playing solo safelane with Clinkz and LD), and I played agains this guy in my last match while solo queueing (he was 56-16, 78%, when I played him) http://dotabuff.com/players/27518712 - do you think I played him in the Normal Bracket?
And how many people do you think actually approve of the MM system? Not many at all, in fact most of the things you were saying in the other threads would be the elements of an ideal MM system, but that's not part of what we currently have.
Lol at maverick
Grimorium invoker so pro, plz teach us, ploox
U so pro, u own noobs, plz plz tell me how
casual i hope you realize that a decent MM for decent players isn't possible for the Australian server and you complaining about it is quite sad
there is no way valve can do anything to change that there simply isn't the player base to work with
you'll just have to play on SEA or in inhouses if you want balanced games or something
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I feel like win/loss is determined 75% by picks/lane and 25% by skill.
I'm not talking about CM, only public matchmaking AP.
I am interested in what people think.