General DiscussionWorld record for fastest farm?

For reference/comparison/perspective :

Perfect last hitting alone max gpm is about 390 including siege units and the base 75 free gpm during the first 17:30 min of the game before more creeps spawn.

To get more than this requires towers, neutrals, heroes, and changing lanes to catch more farm.

This Medusa has 404 gpm at 6 min mostly from farming ancients, matching the pace of perfect last hitting in the lane. At 12 min she has 511 from ancients, neutrals and a few lane creeps.

This is very good but I think it will not be hard to beat this pace by taking a lot of hero kills and towers early. I played over 500 games of luna in dota 1 and my best ever I had manta, bfly, bkb, divine, treads and 4k gold when I solo killed 4 of their team, both T4 towers and the throne at 31 min. That comes to about 850 gpm. I'm sure I am nowhere near the best farmer or pub stomper out there, every week Valve puts up Alchemist games with over 1000 gpm, some over 1300 gpm.

The ancient stacking start for Medusa does look viable though if your team can protect it. Its hard to argue against farm that matches perfect lasthitting free farm early game.

In dota 1 my record was 1000 creeps (no neutrals) in 59 minutes.

So wait, you farm ok in one game and you think you have a world record? lmfao. Since when is 555 GPM in 18 minutes something incredible, especially in your low level games?

And what kind of measure are you wanting to use, because there are tons of games where people have both higher CS (about 350 CS at that same time) and much higher GPM than that, and this is done in both high level games and competitive

^^^ failed to understand the whole point of the thread

I think the main take away is the idea of using Medusa to ancient farm like this from level 1. He is not claiming this is the best game ever. He is just encouraging people to share unique ideas on how to get very good early farm. OP clearly expects that people will post better farms than this one.

And exactly which part of the OP gave you that idea?

Besides, doing ancients with Medusa isn't something new.

I know its hard to read, but you should really try it sometime. Most people would have understood by reading the original post.

But why not explain? I've got time to waste.

Notice he says "let us" set the record, not "let me". And how he will "start off" with this Medusa game as an example of what he hopes others will post. See, some people are not totally focused on themselves and actually recognize the contributions of others.

I think this is interesting because it feels like a puzzle to me and I want to solve it. What is the best way to farm? Killing heroes and towers is not a reliable option for Medusa because she is extremely weak early game.

but your win rate with medusa is 38%? you just got put up against noob due to MM

Lycan jungling is also a good alternative for fast farming. Not as good as it used to be, but is still good :)

not even close :D

Imorgrum are u sick with invoker?:) or bored of him?

He needs to keep making smurf accounts because he can only play invoker against low skill players.

:) im fun of invoker, and on high lvl invoker doesnt has it so easy as playing againts low lvl users.

I think the fastest farming possible, no matter what tactics are employed, has to be on alchemist. Nothing can match his bonus gold. But that's no solution to the puzzle.

Have you tried Bristleback? Its possible to farm 3 jungle camps dire or radient from fairly early levels with almost no items. I remember some impressive results in dota 1, but he is new in dota 2 and I don't know how it will work out with the creep aggro changes.

Lets think about how a given farming scheme compares to a practical maximum (Alchemist in an uncontested defensive tri-lane).

A medium jungle camp produces about 100 gpm on average, 155 gpm max and 81 min depending on creeps. Realistically supports can't stack better than 2 camps per min and with the new aggro you can't stack up more than 3 stacks. At that point you have to farm them, in other words before the 4 min mark. Suppose you play alchemist in a defensive tri-lane, get perfect last hitting in the lane, max greed and get solo xp so you have level 2 acid to farm the stacks at 3:15 or so...Depending on what type of creeps spawned thats maybe 20 neutrals. Bonus gold for the lane is 23 for waves 1,2,3 and 44 gold for waves 4,5 at which points you go the stacks and have 603 starting + 225 periodic + 945 (perfect lasthits) 157 bounus, you farm the stacks for another 600 + near 500 bonus, while the supports take the creep wave you are missing and at 4 min you will be level 7 and have a total of 3030 gold or 747 gpm.

Then you get Hand of Midas, have greed level 4 and have pretty much won the game if you don't feed a ton and throw it. No other plan could even come close to that without taking many towers or hero kills. I would call that a practical maximum.

only alchemist can get 1100+ gpm and no other hero can do it, unless u r an antimage and the game goes 120 minutes and there is no contest to finish the game or to stop ur farm

u will lose all map control from doing ancients all firs 20 mins and making ur team 4v5 this is only good against mroons

grimorum is a scrub player he plays in low levels all the time.

Dotaguy610 => in a random solo que pub game that is certain to lose map control and the game, but he didn't do it for 20 min only for 6 really before he could have been ready to fight. In a pro game a ward war would develop over the ancient camp. But if you did it in a pub with a team of friends you could get strong early game lane controlling heroes and make it work fairly easily. Especially because its very unlikely the other team would figure out what medusa was doing and how to stop it in time.

And I would like to acknowledge the tribute Rape has paid in his unofficial capacity as forum troll to the greatness of Grimorum by proving how jealous he is of the attention excellence receives without trying.

@Relentless, idk, it seems that no gd player appreciates grimorum's invoker skills, they all say he plays from smurf accounts, and a prove is this one, he plays bad with ever single hero expect invoker, maybe its on purpose, not sure, as look at his invoker, and look at his overall winrate, they just dont make sense

He can play lots of other heroes very well. But if you actually watch his games or play with him you will see that he carries low skilled players most games against high skilled players. He has been doing it that way for years. He just likes to play with people he knows and doesn't care about their skill so much. Its very hard to carry like that except on your signature 6K + games hero. I played maybe 300 games with him in dota 1 and he never raged about bad support even once. Instead he just took whatever came as a challenge and tried to overcome it. One of the best attitudes I have ever seen in a dota player.

And plenty of good players do appreciate his mastery of Invoker. But the people who tend to post things are those who are jealous and those who are trolls. Few people go out of their way to compliment others especially when they know they will be attacked for it. Who wants the bother? But I enjoy arguing so I mention Grimorum every once in a while since I know someone with be upset by it due to their jealousy and give me an excuse to write something.

Even murs, Vaikiss, and any others said this, i never saw him play, or anything, i saw some invoker highlights for him here and there

Oh grimorum is about as good as Vaikiss talentwise. Nowhere near Murs level, but really there are only and handful of pros in the world more talented than murs. The reason Grimorum is so amazing on Invoker is he has just played it more times than the vast majority of players have played dota games total. And he is smart as well as having fast fingers. He makes very solid strategic decisions.

I think you are mistaking grimorum for SingSing. Singsing plays with very average players a lot, and does so against the absolute top tier players, and very often against other competitive players. And the best part is, is that he even goes with troll builds most of the time, its pretty funny really, and he still ends up doing extremely well most of the time, he has >15 kills in 17 of his last 40 games, and ridiculous stats all round. I think he is queueing a lot more with his QPAD buddies now, but previously he was playing with some really average players.

Grimorum on the other hand, goes full tryhard mode on smurf accounts so he can send in clips from games where he is insanely far ahead against enemies that still don't know what it means to last hit, and he can probably win with just 2 spells anyway. I'm not saying he is a bad invoker, but he is certainly no where near the level that people think he is. Its not impressive to get a rampage against a team that you are already 10 levels ahead of, http://dotabuff.com/matches/141699200 - its games on smurf accounts like these where most of his clips come from.

Just imagine the kind of shit you could do against enemies in any of these matches
http://dotabuff.com/matches/166729873
http://dotabuff.com/matches/163968189
http://dotabuff.com/matches/164010780

edit: murs and that Vaikiss dude are way, way better than this guy, its not even close.

Sometime maybe you will actually play against Grimorum and see first hand how far above you he really is. But you won't learn from that either. You will just imagine that your team sucked because MM hates you.

Does Grimorum have amazingly awesome, almost impossible stats on Invoker? sure, but that not why I think he is good. Its because I watch him play and see blindly fast invokes, near perfect positioning during the chaos of a fight, blind skill shots hitting left and right, excellent mouse control, extremely fast reactions and wise strategic choices. These are the sort of things I use to judge skill.

Lmao, grimorum. That guy who complained how TA needs nerfs because she was the only one able to beat invoker in lane like 1 year ago when he was broken as fuck and everybody was picking him, similar to how people pick nyx/PL now. I know what playing from smurf accounts looks like, you get people who max crit on CK and buy vlads recipe at the start of the game, people completely new to the game. Even terribles would stomp them. But grimorum has sub 50% win on a smurf acc with a very low number of games, holy shit what a player.

You're spreading your aids around the forum again Relentless. You're a average dota pubber probably dwelling in normal/high and praising everyone better than you as being mad skill (which is like what, 50% of the playerbase) while you can't really actually tell what mad skill and being outplayed is due to your lack of ingame experience. And stomping 5 agi carries with sunstrike sure isn't, rofl

LOL, that thread. Hmm invoker beats everyone except TA, therefore TA needs a nerf, dat logic

Yes, my 95th percentile rank and Very High/High games are so average. I totally agree. But if you think its so easy to do. Go smurf stack all you like, play 60 games of Invoker and maintain 86% win and 11+ KDA. After you have attempted that you will have gained an appreciation for what you apparently can't judge by just watching gameplay. Nice use of ad hominem attacks to misdirect the thread.

For anyone who forgot. This was not about me or even grimorum or even invoker. It was about finding great starting farm strats. As usual, the same forum trolls that always do it are hard at work to derail the thread.

grimorum cant even past 50% on his main account with invoker thats whyhe makes smurf accounts non stop

^
you
Invoker
Invoker
3

0.00%

ferrari
158
68.99%
4.81

dendi
135
63.70%
4.40

guy that started this thread
1,210
52.40%
4.26

i played invoker in high level , if i make a new account and play invoker i can get a 85% and leave it at 80 games :D

^
proof please else gtfo

^

im the best invoker actually, grimorum just creates new accounts and plays vs scrubs

Come on Rape, this is just pathetic. Your trolls can't be THAT obviously nonsense. You need to say something very unlikely, something most people will know is wrong, but still just maybe possible so that someone will feel they have to contradict you.

Relentless

i already beat grimorum 1 v 1 invoker vs invoker, ask him yourself

its nice that u can get sick leet farm with uncontested jungle and a few oddball heroes like tinker, dusa, pl after a couple levels

the problem is that much like using quelling blade into offlane trees, most decent players will notice what ur doing and either ward shit, contest your farming, or just push and get better map control

^^^ exactly right.
This is what happens in pro games when a strong jungle hero spends to much time out of the lane. Of course you need the picks to do it. Usually something like a chen or enchantress with NP or Kotl or Jakiro and you can take T1 at maybe 2 min and go right into the T2 if rotation does not stop you in time.

Or you get into a ward war even before the creeps spawn. In a competitive game something like Medusa ancient farming has to be part of a coordinated strategy with the right hero picks and starting builds to hold the lane and defend the ancient camp.

Despite this I still think you could go into a typical Very High game with a man stack, pick strong lane controlling heroes and easily get that first 6 min of ancient farm because the other team really has to plan ahead to have extra wards and the flexibility to roam to stop it. If they are facing pressure on their lanes they wont be able to adjust until Medusa has a solid start.

Occasionally I find a particular player really figures out your game plan, counterpicks and just wrecks your start. For instance I recently had a very bad game on NP because a good BH player got extra regen, was pooled wards, and just spent the first 4 min of the game preventing me from jungling or pulling and it delayed my levels and farm so badly I could not recover. Anyway, things like the Medusa ancient farming are vulnerable to counter play like that.

[IMG]http://oi44.tinypic.com/6i7ia0.jpg[/IMG]

record for Lina?? just a game from yesterday..

not that hard with smurf accounts.

trying to set world record is kinda pointless. OP done nothing special here LOL.. people can never have games like these at top level matches so..

World record has probably been set because of people who did this:

http://dotabuff.com/matches/222781910

there you go, 2040 gpm

"But it was an exploit" Try and look through every game with over 1000 GPM and separate legit players from exploiters! Much fun to be had, by all! :D

I am going to back Grimorum here and just bodly say that someone is mad jealous. He has contributed videos and helpful tips towards invoker something that I am unsure any of the above have done. He is a great invoker player and there are others to be sure but a cock fight of 0.01% better arguments is not gonna take anyone anywhere.

People have often mentions that "I get 1100 GPM easy" "your noob cause yours is 800". Normal games people don't commonly go over that and if you have a great game with massive GPM its due to unnecessary farming or a real stomp out. Its not normal to get that in a game where teamplay is encouraged but not always upheld.

It is my opinion that a 600-800GPM game for a carry that helped their team from early is acceptable.

The odd thing about Medusa is that I honestly think that ancient farming is bad to a degree. My reasoning for this is that you leave your team 4v5 for about 15-20 minutes while you get the needed farm. Also people who ancient tend to go for the big items first without any early game or mid to try and help the team or even attempt to get kills.

With the adjustment to her ult medusa is a massive threat and I have sadly been beated by laning medusa's who were surrounded by the right team and fought and pushed early, using her ult aggressively from about the 10 minute mark and 5 man pushing. This is a better way to do it as you clear tower, kills and gain map control which will help you farm in relative peace.

This is not to say that this works for everyone and different strokes for different folks.

Lane dusa http://dotabuff.com/matches/143798942
Anc. dusa http://dotabuff.com/matches/199131161

Well if you really want an absurd record gpm. This is it.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/5646265

That's got to be a bug there is no way that is possible with those LH and Kills......must see replay to find out though.

Or since I happen to know...this was before a bug fix on manta. You could take the items off manta images and sell them.

The point is: the record games are fake situations of one kind or another.

There are of course world class farmers. And if you want to get an idea of practical limit on what is possible take a look at their games.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/219528217
Here Beesa gets 13.3 cs/min on Luna by being perfect + a few stacks. GPM is just over 1,000. I watched this game live, it was real game...luna's team was better, but it was a real game, first position first page of Very High.

omfg what a boring game

also grimorum is good spell chainer, bad laner

http://dotabuff.com/matches/89622844 more gold from kills :P

^That's another good example of what is really a fake gpm record. Slark killed a ton of bad players many extra times in the fountain. The leaver AA has 25 deaths in 18 min. That's not a real game.

My record gpm is also a game with 4 leavers, although they were on my team.

implying playing vs scrubs who let u completely freefarm as luna is real game lol