UI Changes Discussion
The past several weeks Valve has been releasing numerous updates to the user interface in Dota 2. The changes were met with mixed response — despite some praise, even from numerous professional players, the vocal part of our community was displeased with the introduction of such things as “status effect” bar and text. Moreover, some of these changes broke the existing UI elements, such as HP bars. While most of the issues with the introduction of the new UI elements have been fixed, the question still remains — does Dota really need more easily accessible information, and what impact does it have on skill gaps between players?
A look into the past
Dota 1 was not a very accessible game. Looking at it now, after being spoiled by a very functional and efficient interface of Dota 2, will make a lot of people shiver. The hotkeys for abilities were spread all over the keyboard, the items were purchased from numerous vendors, each with a limited inventory, and the courier, at least in the beginning, didn’t even have proper “transfer item” functionality.
Getting into Dota right now couldn’t be easier. It is still a fairly complex game, but its complexity now mainly comes from the burden of knowledge related to the game mechanics and their interactions. In the transition from Dota 1 to Dota 2 and after several changes to the UI functionality, the game became a lot more “comfortable” to play.
Overall, it was not a switch from “micro-management complexity” to “depth complexity”. The depth of the game was present regardless of the UI. But now, with the improved UI, players can fully concentrate on what actually makes the game great: skirmish tactics and general strategy. No longer is it possible to outplay the opponent solely due to a higher APM.
Level Playing Field
With the changes to the UI also came several restrictions on mod and script usage. Dota 2 is all about fairness and equality — all players have access to all heroes and there are no “global buffs” to heroes players can choose from before the game. Each game is a fresh start, and the only progression the game allows for is your progression as a player. Play better and you will win more games.
It is natural then that the UI elements should be standard for all players. While it does take away some harmless fun mods, such as sandstorm SK, it also prevents players from gaining potential benefits from things like pumpkin trees.
The standardization of the UI elements might seem a bit restrictive, but it certainly tries to deal with the problems of potential abuse. This attempt to make the game as fair as possible is objectively a good thing and when the changes to the UI do occur, they impact every single player.
Don’t Just See — Observe
There is a lot of information in a game of Dota that is hidden. You can know what items the enemy hero has, but you have to click on him to see them. You can know how much mana the enemy hero has, but, once again, you have to click on him. You can check what auras, buffs and debuffs are affecting the enemy hero, but… you get the point.
Does using this hidden information = skill? When checking enemy items, it certainly is, as we stated numerous times in our Core Itemisation Guide. But ideally it should be done in-between fights, to make better itemization decisions yourself, rather than frantically checking it once the fight has already broken out.
With the other hidden information the answer is not so clear. The only input required from the player is a single click on the enemy hero. You won’t even have to re-select your hero after that, in Dota 2 your selection defaults to your hero after any issued command. During this single click, you have to observe and comprehend the crucial information: how much mana does the enemy hero have, how many stick charges he has, does he have a TP scroll, is he buffed by any auras etc. This information will allow you to make better decisions.
Does absorbing this information and making correct decisions based on it a skill? Yes, it is one of the things that separates better players. Is the act of clicking on an enemy hero to gain access to this information a skill? Take into account that it is a single click of the left mouse-button and answer the question yourself.
Naturally, the speed with which players perceive and comprehend this information is going to differ. There is a potential argument towards skill cap elimination from the increased accessibility of information. But once again — is it really a skill that is fun to develop? Is clicking multiple heroes in a teamfight to check hidden information, what Dota gameplay should be about? Or would you rather prefer being fully concentrated on decision making instead of unnecessary fluff?
The infamous status effect bars
The previous part was fully theoretical. There is no way some of the hidden information will be made available at a glance, simply because it will make too much visual clutter. Some of it, however, might be introduced in the future. Just like new status effect bars.
The thing is, the information in the new bars is not new. It was a part of the hidden information you could easily access by clicking on the enemy, complete with the countdown until the effect expires:
No one complained about the availability of this information. To be frank, it is unclear whether many players even knew this information existed. It could be used in the exact same way the current status bars are used, with a one-click difference. Now, the question arises: is our vocal community so insecure about its own skill level, that it believes that the elimination of a single click from the equation will suddenly make them significantly worse off?
Closing Thoughts
The addition of easily available information is definitely a good thing. It will make it easier for the new players to adapt and will potentially attract more casual players. On Dota 2 veterans it should have very little effect — despite all the controversy, the MMR system does its job reasonably well, and you will be generally matched against players of your level.
The general idea to show more information is good, but the implementation could certainly use some work. What made Warcraft 3 so great back in the day is how easy it was to “read” the state of the game. Blue tornado=stun, brown one=slow etc. For some reason Valve has decided to scrap all of these icons in favor of aesthetically displeasing white text. This text does not only take a lot more space than necessary, but also becomes much harder to read when several targets are affected in a close proximity.
Potentially, the current system is a placeholder and will either be removed in favor of better overhead icons or will at least allow the players to choose between several different versions. The community itself has already came up with some amazing alternatives (credit to Reddit user u/cuivron). Hopefully Valve will listen to the feedback and adjust accordingly. In their current form, the new systems, while conceptually solid, do require some extra work.
nobody?
what status bar brings is that chain stuns which involve some rough idea of timing is replaced with a more easily seen indicator. In a sense, it removes some aspect of skill which may take hours of playtime to estimate
2nd :(
THIS IS SMASHING!
4th my time to shine
Man people get so butt hurt over additions like these; the game we love/love-to-hate is still the same. Giving newer players a better idea of what's going on is hardly a bad thing and anyone who's already played long enough not to need these changes isn't even affected by their addition.
for my 5 losestreak im 5
The status bar outrage is so dumb. Stun stacking isn't and has never been difficult.
8TH and I don't care
This whole argument is terrible. A lot of info is "easily" acquirable by a click if you trivialise it so.
The fact that in a game of seconds and milliseconds, it isn't easy or possible to absorb and acquire the information.
A literal prompt timer for stuns/silences/roots etc. may seem small but is an invitation for more simplifying prompts and visually obtrusive additions. Enemy mana bars (prompts for 'enough mana for x spell'), enemy item cds (enemy blink ready in 3, 2, 1...), enemy level indicator as soon as they hit 6 warning you, maybe even a prompt to let you know when to stop and hit in order to orb walk perfectly.
It means you can pay attention less, understand less, acquire information less and slower.
Wow, that made zero sense. You'r just spewing slippery slope nonsense. Getting information will do the opposite that your last sentence claimed it would to new players. Being given basic info like "This hero is stunned" forms a foundation for the brain to understand patterns in Dota and the properties of spells.
You should always make access to information as easy as possible. New players need everything they can get their hands on. If they die and they don't understand why, that makes them dislike the game and for a game to continue to flourish you need new players.
For those who think that this is somehow a part of skill - you don't have a grasp what is dota all about. Go try WC3 dota - mechanics will make you puke.
Look at world history - we always tend to simplify things so we can delve into deeper complexity.
I used to think showing mana bars would be a good idea, but if you can see someone's mana, Kunkka can no longer fake torrents, since a player can just watch his mana bar rather than his animation. Small things like these make me lean more towards keeping things the way they are
that status effect information size sure need to get doubled. Is a pain in the ass to see how long the buff will get worn out
There is absolutely nothing wrong with making the game less cluttered. It means that in fights the information is easier to access but it certainly doesn't make the game easier.
What has recently been introduced is never information of what the opponent has (ie mana or items), it's only things that are already known to the player, and it's simply been made easier to find.
Essentially it's just made the information more visible and there's no skill aspect to it. Can you really claim there is a skill difference between someome who can click on heroes quickly and someone who can't? Skill comes down to decisions, and all this update has done is made it clearer what is happening in fights.
For example, you can know that a slardar crush is roughly 2 seconds, but if you can see it during a fight then you'll be able to see visually when your ally can you help you. The impact being able to see the duration has is minor and usually doesn't change the outcome of a fight.
tldr game just looks less shit now
Mana bars for everyone. Everyone see HP bars so let the mana bars be visible also.
There should be a 'no hud' mode. Nothing is shown, no health and mana, no disable indicators, no items, no auras, buffs or debuffs. gl
Information should be as available as reasonably possible. It is up to the players to then exploit said information. Some players aren't aware that BKB purges Global Silence but Global Silence goes through an already activated BKB. This is stated clearly, so it's up to the players to play accordingly. (I'm aware after 2k mmr this should be common knowledge, it's the first example that came to my head.)
MUUUH SKILLCAP
I think dota is trying to make the game so that difficult to access things such as the stun progress bar above the enemy's health bar in the hud being showed in the UI. It just makes it so that people aren't getting hindered by other players more. For example if you know stun timings and are really good at counting seconds without clicking on heroes you are not very well off because odds are there are going to be situations where you have to throw your stun first and you are completely relying on other people to know what they are doing from there which i can promise you they don't. I like the change. I mean it is very discombobulating having to click on everyone in a team fight (which hardly anyone does regardless). This is the exact same thing as spawn boxes. Small hidden mechanics that take hours to study and only give you a slight edge against that invoker spammer that has thrown all his hours into becoming mechanically skilled and kills you anyway. Also it really pisses people off when they know a spawnbox in and out and some position 4 just blocks it like an idiot.
You can speak a bit more harsher than that. Valve took so much money from the TIs and Majors yet they're NOT DOING ENOUGH to fix this broken game
visible mana bar? thats gonna be good, only if the visibility just for ally, not the enemy too
This is one of the few dotabuff articles I disagree with... But it's clear to see why the community is torn over this. I do like a lot of suggestions made over on that Reddit discussion though.
Enemy mana bar plz!
More incompetent noobs in Dota 2 or a slight, barely-significant, ridiculously marginal difference in skill cap? What would you guys prefer, huh?
Following that argument, show all mana enemies
I find it honestly an improving experience without it meaning "dumbing down the game" at all costs.
Well, right now, it doesn't seem to be affecting too much. I still see 4Ks stacking stuns a second early. haha
In my opinion though, there should be an option to disable it if the community is this torn on it, set initially to be shown. Let those who feel "more skilled" turn it off if they want. Of course, they would be handicapping themselves if the opponents still have it set on. Or have it so that newbies have it and those who reached capability to play ranked(profile badge lvl 20 if I'm not mistaken) dont.
"Now, the question arises: is our vocal community so insecure about its own skill level, that it believes that the elimination of a single click from the equation will suddenly make them significantly worse off?"
That's also called mana bar. This "feature" is incoherent to other not added "features". Imo they should stay out, but if they choose to put them in, they could do it properly and bring everything
?
B U R D E N O F K N O W L E D G E
why dont they have an option to turn the additional ui off? then the people who dont like dont have to have it, personally i think it doesnt change the game enough to affect anything major because good players wont need the info and bad players will benefit from it
volvo going full retard again
Спасибо за статью
stun timing bar shown... tidehunter will not like it
Hi guys, could you help me with my school trip? If u can , thx https://www.gofundme.com/schooltripmarch sorry if i write this here..
I can never notice the damn stun bar in-game, I´m still running on my internal, experience acquired pendulum. It's not a good thing though for pro's or newbs, we all need to get a feel for these things anyway because there's other shit we should be looking for in a teamfight.
Ohh and the disable text is retarded and distracting; what does Sleep even mean!!? The enemy is invulnerable and can't take any action? the enemy wakes up and passes sleep on to me if I right click him? the enemy wakes up if he takes hero dmg? The player still needs to know all the interactions by heart.
the problem never was stacking the stun bec ppl didn't know duration (at least at 5k+ lvl) the problem was and still is the lack of communication. So if some1 starts with a stun there will be 2 more supports following up with a stun at the same time bec many ppl just don't communicate
please removed the GUI text status. It's not worth it. When disarmed or any spells toward agasint manta, you can see who the real hero and the clone because of the GUI displays that show. that's showing cheating as well. goahead try this demo hero. build manta on AM, you use invoker spell blast.
I think the new bar is "ok". What was really bad was the bigass icon on top of the hp bar. It was fine the way it was before though, too.
I get the "more accesible"-part but then again, by the time you figure out how each hero works, what the abilities are, how they synergize etc. you already know that kind of stuff.
Dota is a hard game to learn and this is not really the way to make it easier. My suggestion would be to limit the hero pool for beginners (but they only can play with beginners then) until they reach a certain level.
THIS NEW UPDATE MAKES EXISTING PLAYERS PLAY LIKE STUPID AND BORING..I LOVE THE OLDER DAYS..WE NEED TO THINK AND MANAGE OUR SKILL AND SPELL WITH TIMING..NOW WHEN ALL VISIBLE IT MAKES PPL MORE STUPID
Заколебали каждый раз обновлять
доту. Уже просто невыносимо!!!
Он паказал п...
Gostei da barra que indica o tempo de stun facilitou a decisão do suporte
No f***ing Ultra Wide Screen support...
I either have to play on Fullscreen ( sucks for alt + tab) or use a broken UI.
At least implement something like on Overwatch does rendering the black bars on the side for bordless window...
How to turn axe into fish?
this kind of stuff sucks. what is more pleasurable in playing this game than smashing newbies that don't have a f***ing sense of how to control the game. if you give newbies sense the pleasure is going away. =(
they fucked themselves when they banned out source 1 modding, so fuck them, i'm done