General Discussion

General DiscussionTeam fights vs split push and objectives

Team fights vs split push and objectives in General Discussion
SEA ranked #1 Feeder KEK

    Hi guys i usually play core roles and i have lost like more than 200 mmr since 7.20. All this while i have always focused on farm and split pushing and not take team fights unnecessariily but since this patch i feel this play style is not great anymore as if i dont show up in a team fight results in a 4v5 and if losing 1 or 2 team fights allows enemy to snowball even though say i manage to take down 1 tower.... is it a shift in meta? Do you guys have the same thoughts.. really struggling in this meta esp as pos 1 carry

    Giorno Giovanna

      PLay Clinkz pos 1 w/ orchid / deso and you can snowball push all towers and win 20 min. GG

      ywn

        its not a shift in the meta there hasnt been a single point in all of dota time where it was worth it to trade 4 heroes for a tower

        13 y.o (ghoul) (dead inside)

          There are many factors considering split-pushing
          If you are so far behind and you know you that you won't win the teamfight even if you go back, you keep pushing.
          If you are equal and you know that they can manage to hold, then you push.
          If your team can't hold without you then you need to decide whether if your team loses the fight, will the enemy also take your barracks? if yes, you go back, if the enemy can't take the racks even if your team loses, you push.
          Keep in mind that 1 tower is not a good trade for a lost team fight, you absolutely must take even 1 racks for it to be a good trade, otherwise, they will snowball.

          Split-pushing is also a good way to prolong the game if you are behind, its not only for pushing. It would make the enemy tp to defend buying map control and time for your team.

          SEA ranked #1 Feeder KEK

            Thanks guys.. sorry i meant taking down towers not just literally one.. and also i focus alot on farming my key items even before fighting. Also i sometimes am not sure if my team can actually hold a fight. I sometimes think they can but it may turn out disastrous

            Avo

              Don't tunnel vision items like that. There isn't a set point where carries can fight or not. It's about picking the right fights. If you can tp in late and turn the fight and transition it in to a tower early on then it's worth it. If you can't, then carry on farming and pressuring other parts of the map but your default shouldn't be to just afk farm until you're 6 slotted and ratting the whole game away. Gauging what determines a good fight and identifying what you need to do to win is all part of becoming a better player.

              poggies

                Sometimes even that 20 minute rax isn’t worth it when you get wiped

                InSaNE

                  hmm its strange cos we also hear some high MMR players mentioned low lvl players prioritise kills over objectives and in previous patches i have experienced where we team fight and we see opp AM or NP is ratting our towers and then threatening rax and to delay the game and this kinda works out for the enemy to come back based on the come back mechanics of previous patch. I think this patch is kinda diff.. is it true that Kills are now way more important than objectives?

                  Just(wiNner

                    stop playing carry

                    michael sassbender

                      36% winrate in normal skill, pretty sure your issue is not misunderstanding when to fight and when to farm/push. you just have 0 understanding of dota 2 my friend

                      SEA ranked #1 Feeder KEK

                        This is my smurf acct obviously. I was at 4.5k mmr then have now dropped to 4.3k

                        Vandal

                          It's not just 7.20 though It became like that a while ago
                          of course a high mmr player in our bracket can still stall the game with his decisions of split pushing, but I too feel like at my own level, It's harder to win through split push only.
                          (I am still doing it on my 1.7k account easily though)

                          SEA ranked #1 Feeder KEK

                            https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/729m6v/decision_making_the_though_process_of_a_6k_player/

                            Pls see cookies reddit here on team fight. He emphasised that LET your teammates die if it is a not necessary teamfight. So i dont get it the above ppl who said it is never worth to abandon a teamfight for even enemy rax?? If this changes with the current patch that all cores must absolute join team fights then pls explain.. i been doing ok in split pushing before i get my key items. I think i need a bit more details in terms of how the meta changes rather than " its not worth to not join team fights even for destroying enemy rax".

                            Vandal

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jj6dGXq41A&t=6738s
                              in this video cookie tries to teach the player how to not just split push. overall, some fights are bad fights or some matchups are just very bad to fight into at early stages.

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4VAxvTkEGw
                              Here he teaches how to split push effictively

                              The AM video is really great.

                              I think his method of thinking is more fight oriented now compared to his previous guides where it was "farm farm farm walk down Ancient"
                              that, or now I'm less of a noob and understand his words differently

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                              Rocket

                                Think it through. You are not swapping a tower for four team mates, you are swapping a tower for four teammates and a tower/roshlost map control.

                                That is only ever a good deal if your backs are against the wall. Or maybe if they have really great hg defense and you get to take an undefended T3.

                                Himas bayabas <3

                                  Pick meepo then abuse ur early level advantge, gold, exp and try to end at 25min mark.

                                  SEA ranked #1 Feeder KEK

                                    I saw some cookies vid and i think he still thinks teamfight when u are not ready is bad. Can cookies or whoever high mmr players provide some thoughts. I used to not join team fights unless i have some key items or spells such as ulti up etc but always if one team lose 1 or 2 team fights the opp team will have a huge advantage. Really cant figure out this snowbally meta now