Momentum management.
- Pickoffing one of their heros gives momentum. If PL is dead, they won't have a decent splitting while you are stacking as 5.
- If your Magnus has a blink, he is most likely going to land this 3 - 5 man RP into your ultimates combo
- If your big ulties are up (RP + golems), push. Otherwise, control the map and gank, pickoff, protect your supps warding.
As they won the laning phases, your cores (less greedy I admit) needed at least their power spike items and you were weaker without the big ultimates.
Stacking as 5 and pushing to give them teamwipe is not always the right choice. You have to play around your ultimates, onlineness of your carries and power spikes.
Push if:
- You teamwipe them with big ulties
- Have big ulties available, sentried the area (if riki smokes kill warlock scenario) and position well
- You have a pickoff and won't get split pushed (they won't risk a 3v5 in a pickoff scenario)
TLDR:
Momentum management, let carries get online (you lost laning phase), play around ulties, punish mistakes and pickoff to temporize ultimates cd.
Edit : you DIDN'T have the advantage because it wasn't said that your magnus would land RP without blink, it wasn't said that PA wouldn't dagger OS warlock before he drops the rock, you needed silver edge to get bristleback down.
This is a game of objectives. If you have a match that you will eventually lose if the game goes long, you need to act in the early game. If you don't have the late game, then farming jungle and not pushing is not an option as it will drag the game on and you are in a losing position in the scenario. Best way to do things is to have a couple of ganking heroes roam around the map and get a kill or two on a lane and go hit the tower after the gank. Ganking and not taking objectives isn't much better than just farming in the jungle.
Best chance of winning is to knock down all the tier 1 & 2 towers to suck the space out of the map for the enemy team that relies more on the late game... Basically force them into their base and into waiting on you. Then you have some time to farm up their side of the map and get enough resources to go high ground and take a tier 3. If you have issues with winning the fight (you lose a lot of your heroes) you can then knock down the sanctuaries for even more map control.
The meta game right now is favoring heroes that don't need to be 6 slotted to come on line. Like PA for example just needs like 3 items to be able to join fights efficiently... If you have heavy pushing heroes, it is quite easy to push down the tier 1's and 2's, but you may have issues getting a win going high ground. And the pub games are legendarily awful to a coherent team strategy or even having all of your team on the same page... And this lack of communication and coordination foils the early push strat almost completely. And this is why in pub games, the team with more late game power usually comes out on top.
It is just the way it goes unfortunately...
The lineup you guys have is not a really good one. Magnus as the safelane carry is not a viable option. He is an initiator and if he isn't doing that, the hero is basically shooting himself in the foot. And to top that off, you have a melee carry against BB and Riki on lane, the lack of last hits must have been quite bad. Warlock isn't a bad support and if you just keep those spells going on the enemy or the Magnus they should have tough time getting kills. And NP hitting a dude with the trees and AA hitting the dude trapped within the trees should be pretty much automatically stunned and thus easy to kill. Though PL has quite a good escape from that as does PA.
Basically you were relying way too much on the SF and he is easily killed by PA and PL with Diffusal Blade. And Riki smoke cloud doesn't make casting spells any easier for SF and his ridiculously long cast animation for the ult.
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Ok guys i realy want to know if i am right or wrong so it would be great if some better player then me could give an advice.
Line up:
Warlock / Magnus - SF - Natures / AA
vs
BB / Riki - Pa / Pudge - Pl
My opinion:
We need to push and pressure as hard as possible. While its ok to gain an bigger advantage for or safelane and mid by lane controll for the first minutes, our natures/aa offlane vs a solo pl can go for straight pushing and should be able to get their t1 in the first minutes maybe even pressure their t2. After the first item on our core (not later then min 10-12) we should 3-5 man their remaining t1 and immediately go for their t2. Their line up is so extremly greedy, that we should have no problem with getting their t2´s even if that means that we have to 5man from now. At least we should get their t2´s as soon as our ultis are ready and then go for rosh and hg.
The reality was that we could win with warlock/magnus vs their bb/riki lane. Our sf vs pa had problems mid because their pudge was constanly mid but we could turn around some kills buy porting/ganking. Our natures/aa lane vs a solo pl (their pudge support was mid basically all the time) could not manage to get their t1.
After 15min we stil only have 1 tier1 tower. I am telling them to push now. But no. They dont want. They want to gank. So now they run from bot lane to top lane to "gank riki". After riki was long gone, they want to use the next 60seconds "to gank woods". I AM TELLING THEM GUYS WE ARE SO MUCH STRONGER SIMPLY PUSH WE DONT NEED TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE ONE BY OUR PICKS. While they say omg no we cant push we need to gank because they have so much stronger late game.
While all their hard carrys are constantly farming our cores run 60 seconds from bot lane to top lane to "gank" and then the next 60seconds from top lane to bot lane to "gank".
Min 20-25 pa is 3 slotted now and one hits every single of our heroes. They now blame it on warlock firstpick "because no stun" and "supports are shit because not enough agressive wards" And i am stil wondering how their safelane t1 is stil standing but after seeing natures farm neutral camp after neutral camp i could imagine that in his "normal game" he doesnt push so fast, so why would he now?
So, can you please tell me that i am right and we need to simply push without pick of as fast as possible. Or we realy need to outfarm them for the first 15-20m and then running around for ganks? In my opinion no matter how much we gank, they are simply gaining time. What you guys say?