General DiscussionUse Gem and put back in stash every few minutes to confuse enemy?

"bh and clinkz would go crazy to findout who has the gem"..

then they realise you don't have it and kill you because you have no detection.

Its better if you have dual roaming supports so you can protect each other and have killing power between you. Just switch the gem between each other after you are sure you were seen and are not seen now. That will be enough to confuse the issue. Few pubs actually check items and when they do they don't do it very often. I watch ppl play a lot. A typical pub player checks items zero times per game. Even the very good ones forget to do it much.

An invis pub hero will usually check for gem after he dies to it. And not check again once he has seen the gem.

Don't you underestimate the normal pub player? Its common sense to check items, when you go mid the first thing you do is checking your opponents items(regen etc). Throughout the game you can check sometimes to counter item builds. I think most people do that. It's a huge disadvantage to not do it, so I think you underestimate the general pub players slightly.

Hell, even I do it and I am new to dota2, haven't even played dota#1 so I truly believe most people do it.

Congratulations you have the much less discussed aspect of the Dunning Kruger effect where high performing individuals tend to drastically underestimate themselves. You imagine that because you do it and you don't think you are that smart...everyone must think of it. But no, nearly everyone checks items zero times per game. The vast majority of dota players do not think about changing their build to counter items on a regular basis....they do so rarely, most games it never crosses their minds and even when it does they do not make a practice of checking items to see what others are building.

Even though experienced pub dota players have heard of the concept of checking items... maybe they even think that because some games they check items once or twice they are "checking items"... in reality when you watch from some pubs point of view they will almost never check enemy items. Players who end up on the main 34 live pages (ie top 1% to top 0.5%) will occasionally check items, maybe 2 or 3 times a game, certainly not on every hero. But most of them also do not make a regular practice of doing it.

Like you, and every human, I also tend to assume that people do what do and think how I think. But having watched hundreds of pub games from nub to near-pro level I know that people do not actually check items. I'm sure many ppl reading this are thinking "well! I check items!", but probably you don't really do it. Watch your replays and see how many times you really check items. Its probably 1 or zero times in a given game. If you really do check items regularly throughout the game, you are far far above average in that respect.

I think the "deward then put gem in stash" strategy is more legit in those situations where your team has invisible heroes and the enemy does not. If the enemy has BH or Clinkz I would not hide our gem.

lol relentless

relentless, if we are going to talk about strategies, try to assume COMPETENT players. Next we will be saying that pro teams shouldn't pick AM because they get 25 minute battlefury and finish manta at the 70 minute mark. Its not that everyone constantly checks enemy items, but its a lot more common for invisi heroes to check if people have dust/gem. And it becomes more and more likely as you deward and shit.

I'll just add to the counter

games since relentless has had a KD greater than 1: 51

Wait , are you relentless that posted a shadow boots suggestion on dota dev ?

I don't think confusing them is as important as keeping the gem in your inventory to see them. I mean once they realize you have gem it's not like they're going to try and focus you, they'll likely try to avoid you and avoid detection. Swapping gem to someone in a different lane could catch them off guard.

"So much meat, so little time... Get over here!!!"
Sorry for the intro i think i am a bit obsessed with Pudge, well whatever.

@OrumTest
I've been doing this strategy since summer of 2012, so what? Let me tell you something kid, once you start playing versus serious opponents all that it takes for you to die is to be seen for one second and then 2 of them have stun, blink in, dead. 850 gold wasted and 10 minute cooldown, will you pay the price again? It becomes quite expensive while the time passes on, doesn't it? And let's suppose you are fine with that. Would you be fine if you miscalculated the right timing for dewarding and died again so easily, so fast, so unimportantly? Perhaps you could swallow that too and try to be the best support you can be and yes here... we.. go..! Wow. Are you okay? Are you feeling fine? Did i just wake you up son? Sorry, my mistake.. But you know what hurts most mr Orum? When a guy like you, when a guy like me loses the final fight of the game because he believes that it is crucial to destroy a specific ward. And when he is trying to escape while a 5-man team chases him down, he jukes, he survives for 10 whole seconds and then... and then you know what? You die a couple feet away from your mates and till they understand what's going on and how right you were about that ward, they kill them all in an instant. Before they open BKBs, before they react, before they even think. That's what's the best part about your strategy and i guarantee anyone who tries to do advanced shit without tons of experience will hate the game and quit it much faster than he would, without doing all of these things and rather focusing on learning the game. Oh and the ice on the cake is this: I've bought the gem and the wards as a carry more times than i can count or think of but hell, you can't know what is waiting you inside the fog when you enter it and heading towards planting a ward (especially when nobody follows), can you? Just some food for thought. I'm out, bb.

^Do you have any kind of problem ? why the fuck do you call someone kid when they didnt even flamed anyone ?

Terrible why are you so arrogant ? why the fuck would you flame relentless for nothing when OrumTest is talking about pubs and so is relentless ?

You guys are so obsessed with dota that forgot how to be a human being ....

months since the "Terrible" dota players smurf account had stats he wanted to admit were his... 5 months and counting.

Seriously though, he is just bored and couldn't think of anything to say. He does this from time to time. Idk about Playmen. It sounds like he had a bad game and is mad about it. They will both be ok.
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Also, yes I suggested shadow boots.
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=112228

I don't know how likely it is that a developer will even read it. But there is no harm in at least giving them a chance to see the concept.

If all you want to do is confuse the enemy, buy a gem and hide in in the center of the enemy jungle. There will be tons of confusion when they find it.

^ rofl
You just gave me visions of easter egg dota.... nvm lets not go there.

Anyway, in pub games where someone on my team buys gem I almost always end up wishing they hadn't. If there is a hero on your team that can stay alive for a decent amount of time while whole holding gem, I would argue that you would probably win without the gem. Otherwise, the gem will just go back and forth and you didn't really get much of an advantage from your 850 gold. Best to just buy sentries and dust imo.

@ Relentless - I posted an idea to add to your suggestion. Let me know what you think.

so basically you are saying that gem is useless in pub?,
what... ?

No, thats not what I intended to convey. Of course there are times when gem is invaluable, I just meant to say that I think gem is used too often, and in the wrong circumstances.

Gem is best used for dewarding. I carry sentries and dust even after the team has a gem. Each has its own function. Also, thanks for contributing to my topic on the dev forum.

Gem is pretty good on a really hard to kill hero when you are 5 man pushing. Keeps the rikis and bountys from ganking your team fight supports. Like give it to brew or bristle in a 5 man push with enigma or cm. I mean if I'm playing bounty and other team doesn't have vision you can bet your ass I'm going to gank that enigma or cm as soon as they initiate.

Maybe the most retarded thing I've read today.

Pick Lone Druid and carry the gem like a man